Amber Ontiveros  
Any person that has done something that's unbecoming to the tribe, they put them in the middle of the tribe. And they recount every positive thing, every act of loving kindness, every good deed that that individual has done. And what they say is they remind him of the better part of himself, they remind him of his contribution to the tribe. Imagine if that's what happened to us when we made a mistake.

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders tend to shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma. And as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories about how real people and real businesses operate. My guest today is Amber Ontiveros, a longtime civil rights advocate. Amber served advisory roles at the US Department of Transportation for the Bush and Obama administrations, and now runs Ontiveros & Associates specializing in change management and policy development. Amber is an author, keynote speaker and coach. And she has crafted tools grounded in the neuroscience of unconscious bias, to heal herself from beliefs that result in discord, discrimination, and oppression. She now uses these tools in her practice among businesses and agencies to foster positive workplace culture, I love that her perspective has been seen and heard by 1000s of agencies for leading change management initiatives across the country. And I'm incredibly excited and privileged for her to bring those perspectives to the podcast today. So I'd love to welcome you to the show. Amber, how are you doing?

Amber Ontiveros  
Thank you, Jeff, I'm so excited to be here.

Jeff Ma  
Well you know, I want to dive in. Because unconscious bias is something that comes up all the time in my conversations and and just in this line of work. But before we can dive in, I want to connect it first through you. So my question is simply, what is your passion? And how did you arrive to that passion?

Amber Ontiveros  
My passion is is really about identifying problems in posing in as innovative solutions for regardless of where they may take us. And this conversation today is going to take us in a very different direction. And what I'm going to talk about today really is my passion. So as Jeff mentioned, you know, I have a background in policy development. And in this story is very unique. I have a unique, very rare disease. And in 2016, I had a near death experience, where my consciousness literally popped outside of my body. And it popped outside of my body and I went into a black void. And the next thing I knew I was in an expansive light with the being of light, whom I call the infinite Creator. And I received a number of experiences and and so for those of you who are listening, don't forget the way that you received information through your telephone is through fiber optics, passing information through light. So in that experience, it really cracked my consciousness. And I experienced what's called a life review. And I reviewed with the infinite creator, every experience that I had ever had with every person. And it was as a result of that experience that when I came back, I started studying quantum mechanics, conscious consciousness and the neuroscience of unconscious bias. And I now know I had to die so that I could live. And one of the things that I learned in that experience was that the infinite creator was like, oh, no, no, no, Amber. You think that you are holier, more righteous than the individual who is angry over black lives matter? Amber, you have Have those very same oppressive thoughts within you. So let's uncover why this is. So I started reading the neuroscience of unconscious bias. And I found a couple of biases that literally slapped me in the face. What I realized is, we are not seeing reality in the way it really is. So the first bias is called the self serving bias. So the way it works is, if good things happen to me, I attribute them to myself, if bad things happen to me, I attribute them to things outside of myself. That's what the neural science says, yeah. And so but this is evolutionary, it's an adaptive mechanism, it is the way your brain works, because your brain is essentially it's your subconscious mind is software. So every experience that you're having, then results in your brain very quickly processing that information, categorizing that information into a belief that then protects you, so that you don't get eaten by a lion. So in this case, the self serving bias, the way that it works is, let's say you apply for a job, you you apply for the job, you don't get the job. So then what you do to protect your self esteem, you may think there are other reasons why you didn't get it, maybe the economy, maybe you think that agency was not very good. You know, there's a number of reasons. And so you usually think of it as some other reason other than yourself, like you didn't properly analyze the position, et cetera. So it protects your self esteem, so that you can overcome the challenge of not having a job so that you can get a job so that you can eat. The problem with that bias is it doesn't allow you to perceive things the way they really are. And it does not presume that you can make mistakes. The second bias is called the mini me bias. And we all know what that one is where essentially, again, it's also an adaptive mechanism. Where we are essentially, we tend to select people, we tend to hire people that have similar attributes as ourself. Now, obviously, we know that can result in discrimination, both in both of those situations, we're not perceiving reality as the way it is. But then on top of it, there is a part of your brain, it's in the back of your brain, and it's called the the RAS or reticular activation system. Now, essentially what that is, it's an autopilot for your brain, because you're getting all this information very quickly, all at the same time. It processes the information quickly, and it puts your brain on autopilot. The problem is, then you only experience through your senses, those things that are within your mind. So for example, let's say you decide, I really love red jeeps and you decide you really want a red Jeep, then all of a sudden, you start to see red Jeeps everywhere. That's the way the reticular activation system works. The problem with the RAS is it holds you hostage to the beliefs that lie in your unconscious mind until you change them. But the whole thing about the unconscious mind is you don't know what's in your mind their subconscious. That's why it's called unconscious. So the the infinite creator had given me a set of tools during my near death experience. And I didn't know what they were. But since then, I have now discovered them and I have been using them with my clients. And one of the tools that I was using, it's called mindful listening. And this is the way it works. So let's say you're in the middle of a meeting, and you're starting to feel emotional. You're starting to get triggered. Let's say the situation is hostile. What you do is you focus on your breath. You can do this in a meeting. Nobody has to know in the meeting, you focus on the tip of your nose and as you're breathing in, you think it as your breath thing out, you think out, you can do that. Now, while we're talking. And you'll notice your start at, you can calm yourself down. You're using this to calm your regulate and regulate your emotions and your nervous system. And you're asking yourself a set of questions. Because what you're trying to do is understand why are you reacting? And why is that person acting in the way that they are? Now, through this technique, I was watching a man who is extremely angry over black lives matter. And you can just turn on the news today and see people angry, Discord, all sorts of violence. Why is that? So I was watching this guy, he was so mad over black slept, Black Lives Matter, and it hit me. It literally slapped me in the face, Jeff, what I realized was, what he was really saying is, if Black Lives Matter, I don't matter. And that's based on a false belief that he has inside of himself, that he is not worthy. And I realized in that moment, that was the same belief that I had about myself, with my clients. Because what was happening to me as a consultant for my clients, they would hire me and asked me to create the most innovative, you know, minority contracting program or program for women, I would create it and then I would get crickets. And I begin to wonder, is there something wrong with me?

And that same belief that the man that was anchored was the same belief I had in me, which is I am not worthy. And so then I begin to call some of these, I begin to call them woundings. Because what I discovered by analyzing this situation with the Black Lives Matter situation, and within myself, I found that there were four core wounds that would occur within me, and that I would see in other situations that are resulting in either being triggered, traumatized, Discord, all the way to discrimination, it can lead to a variety of behavior. So again, going back to the way that we work, your beliefs that are in your unconscious mind, then create your thoughts that create your emotions that then create your behavior. The thoughts, the emotions in the behavior are conscious, they're in other words, you're aware of them, right? But what you, but what you're not aware of is what the beliefs that are in your unconscious mind. So those oppressive thoughts were in me. So I started using this technique. And then I started teaching my clients how to see themselves because the neuroscience says, in order to address unconscious bias, you need to slow down your mind so that you can see it. So that's what this technique does, it allows you to see yourself and to see the see the other person. So I'm going to go through some examples that I include in my in my new book. So what's happening when someone is threatened. So when someone is threatened, they're seeing in the other person, there's something in that person that does not live in me. And what they're seeing is, oh, my gosh, I'm afraid. And what they're thinking is, I'm not enough. In other words, I'm not enough compared to that person who has some other skill. And then they're thinking, I'm not worthy. And then they're thinking I have to win. And so then they do something to like, either treat the person badly, or they remove their resources, because there was some other past trauma that has resulted in them believing that they don't have enough. So I call it my I call the book The four woundings, because these four beliefs that are In our unconscious mind, are resulting in a variety of behavior that doesn't need to be there.

Jeff Ma  
So can I can I ask the woundings you're speaking of are these is the goal for us to simply understand them recognize them? Or is there a path to healing each of these things?

Amber Ontiveros  
Yes. So the book is, it's a guide to end it. So, in the book, I provide these examples. And then I provide the tools to heal. So the first step is to be aware of them. That's why it includes mindfulness. And then it includes a variety of techniques on how to heal them. So it includes affirmations that play on a play loop. Because if you think about it, all of these experiences that are where experiences are sensory inputs, right, you see it, you hear it, whatever. So your brain through neuroplasticity is can change. So I created a naturally an eight hour play loop that has positive affirmations that are counter to these negative beliefs that I have about myself that I play on a play loop. Now, let's go back to the woundings. So in in the book, I'm very vulnerable with the examples, because we need to see how this is actually working. So in my situation, you know, I'm the first person to go to college, first person to go to graduate school, I was discriminated against a lot. I had been raped when I was younger over many years. So all of those experiences have resulted in, in trauma and wounding to the point, Jeff, that I didn't realize I believed the discrimination. I had internalized it. So when the racist would get mad at me and act badly towards me, why would I get mad? I realized the reason why I got mad was because a part of me believed it. A part of me really believed it. And then when I healed my for woundings, now, I just realize, oh, no, it's his woundings that are holding him back from allowing someone like me to be in his life. And when someone's threatened, it's the same thing. They're they're just bump. In other words, what's happening when we're threatened any type of behavior like that, when we're triggered with another person? The what is actually happening is, there's something about that experience, that you're seeing a false belief about yourself, but there's a part of you that is believing it. In other words, there's a no, an old trauma that is arising in your unconscious mind. You don't know what it is, and it's causing an emotional reaction. And so through through understanding, first, what are the core beliefs, and then changing them, which includes turning and feeling the feeling, we have it wrong, Jeff, we believe that we're not supposed to be angry. We believe that we're not supposed to feel these negative feelings, but that's because we don't know how to process them. We actually have to turn and witness and sit with them and understand what we what they are. And then we can change them.

Jeff Ma  
So to speak, sitting on the topic of beliefs specifically, I, I feel deeply about this topic, especially since I mean, I think belief systems kind of drive so much of our core behaviors and our decision making and everything like you mentioned, tracking through our thoughts and our emotions and our behaviors right. So I see and meet so many different people and you start learning and getting exposed to all these nuanced belief systems that people everything as simple as, you know, certain cultures who instill beliefs around you know, the role of a woman in a household or what what it means to be successful. and things like that, that are built almost like you mentioned in a from a positive perspective, right? Like how to how to guide your life, how to guide you to be successful how to survive, how to thrive. And so I've always believed, and I love hearing you say this, that these these beliefs are what we have to uncover and recognize, and, and and challenge in many circumstances, can you talk a little bit more about how to navigate that specific part of the journey. So I know that it's connected to all these wounds is connected to all these things. And it feels like before we, before I can arrive there, how do I even make more conscious some of the kind of unconscious beliefs that might be at play when I don't even for most people? Like for me, I don't, I don't see some I don't see most of my thoughts as, as based on a belief or founded in a belief, but yet, when digging deep enough, it could be

Amber Ontiveros  
right. So try, I think everyone should try. And I would only recommend this to start, everyone should try no more than five minutes of meditation a day. And I only say five minutes, because when you try five minutes a day, you will realize you have no control of your thoughts. And then once you try that for 30 days, then you will start, then you will be able to start seeing your thoughts. So if you're ever like driving along, and then all of a sudden you got somewhere, that's an example of your thought play loop playing on autopilot, and you don't even know it. So the first thing you have to do is to create a gap in your awareness so that you can even be aware of them. The second thing is start in AI. I've literally give a step by step guide on how to do this. But start and if you notice, there, there will probably be patterns in your life. So for example, I had dated men that were emotionally unavailable, that is a pattern in my life. Why would that be? Well, if you look at if just think about what I just said, I had been raped for many years. So that would result in me being emotionally unavailable. Because I don't trust I didn't trust men. Now I've healed those wounds. But that is an example of a pattern. You don't know that you have beliefs about that. But all again, you have to look at your behavior, what is showing up in your in your life. And from that you can analyze back to what are the beliefs?

Jeff Ma  
Is is this You mentioned this as being your you've healed from many of these wounds, is this is this a journey that that has that type of endpoint where you can be free completely or is it still an ongoing like amount of work?

Amber Ontiveros  
Well, okay, so, the four woundings that I completely believe now, Jeff, I believe that discrimination is caused by these four beliefs. And the four beliefs are, I am not worthy. I am not enough. I have to win. And I don't have enough. And those four woundings, they show up in discrimination. And they showed up in me when my partner broke up with me. And so with a discrimination, the way it shows up is the woman that's oppressing another woman, she's seeing something in the other woman and she's like, Oh, my goodness, I'm scared. I believe there's only room for one person at the top. Compared to her, I'm not enough. And that's also based on her belief that that I'm not worthy. Some past trauma that happened. And because of that other woman, she's like, Oh, my gosh, I have to win. And there for I haven't had enough so I have to deny her resources. That's the way it plays out and discrimination in a partnership. The way it showed up with me is he broke up with me and then I was like, I'm not enough. Compared to her. Oh my gosh, I'm not worthy. I'm never gonna have another relationship. Nobody's gonna love me. I have to win you. You my former partner, you're the one that suck. In other words, I didn't take responsibility for my failings in the relationship. And why do I say that? I think I don't have enough because I think I'm never going to have relationship that's not real Jeff. See, these beliefs are in our unconscious mind, and they result in action. That's not actually real.

Jeff Ma  
I completely see what you're saying. And I think it's a level of work that I think many people would aspire to do. But I think as proven by most population is not necessarily successful, I don't think people are out there in droves, like, able to, like accomplish this, like you have. So I guess as, as we kind of, there's so much to break open here. But as we kind of run shorter on time, I'd love to ask, you know, for those who, who hear you, and, and kind of want some progress in this journey themselves, obviously, there's your upcoming book, there's resources that you have, but even just in this moment here, how do you how do you help people get started on this? Who? Again, it's completely unconscious? So we're hearing you or maybe some people aren't hearing you? But how do you like, how do you get here without having a near death experience yourself or having, you know, having to, you know, maybe it's a little more nuanced for some people? What's a what's like a tangible first step for this journey?

Amber Ontiveros  
I think the tangible first step is, is simply focusing on the breath in moments where you're angry, because that's the first step to healing.

Jeff Ma  
That makes sense. And and Jeff,

Amber Ontiveros  
I know we're running out of time, but I want to leave you with a positive story, please. Yeah. So in in the book, I describe a tribe in Africa. And I believe this is how we end discord and discrimination. So what they do is the tribe puts any person that has done something that's unbecoming to the tribe, they put them in the middle of the tribe. And they recount every positive thing, every act of loving kindness, every good deed that that individual has done. And what they say is they remind him of the better part of himself, they remind him of his contribution to the tribe. Imagine if that's what happened to us when we made a mistake, that we are lovable, that we are kind that we are worthy that we are enough that we have enough. That's how we end discrimination. We look at this in a positive way, we treat each other in a positive way instead of a negative one. Because that not only changes our RAS filter, it changes theirs. And then they begin to see positive things in their life. And so do you.

Jeff Ma  
I love that. That's, that's an incredible anecdote. I love it. Last piece, before you go fill in the blank for me, the most important thing for me to show up as my whole authentic self at work is blank.

Amber Ontiveros  
Being vulnerable.

Jeff Ma  
Could you elaborate.

Amber Ontiveros  
I think that the old Amber had done this disservice in the work that I had done with equity. And then I had harmed other people because of the way that I communicated this work. And I had shamed individuals. And I now believe, I don't believe that racism is about race. I believe it's about self esteem, and other parts of the brain that are holding us hostage. This is what I mean by vulnerable.

Jeff Ma  
Thank you. And that about wraps up the time we have. But Amber, thank you so much for sharing your story, and your perspective and all this wisdom with us, between the neuroscience of it all into the spiritual journey and through your expertise. I think there's a lot to chew on a lot to think about and work through. So I really appreciate you sharing and taking the time today. To our listeners, thank you so much. I appreciate you sticking with us as well. So if you haven't checked out the book, Love as a business strategy. Please do. Look out for Amber's, I believe you said upcoming book Amber, is that correct?

Amber Ontiveros  
It's called Hear the four woundings, and you can get it on my website at healthefourwoundings.com.

Jeff Ma  
Awesome. So it is out and available, correct? Yes. Awesome. Perfect. So, heal the four woundings. Check it out, and Amber Ontiveros and make sure you if you check out books always give a review leave a leave a like share with somebody however you can help support. Writing a book is really hard work and so want to make sure you you know, the only way the only satisfaction and return we get on that is knowing that it reaches people, it helps people so make sure you support her in that. And if you haven't already, subscribe this podcast rate this podcast help us out here as well. With that hope everybody has a wonderful week and we'll be seeing you next time.