Jessica Grossmeier
Some of these things can be as simple as starting to share your stories about what gives you meaning and purpose in your life. And when leaders especially share those stories, they now open the invitation up for other people to share their stories and they're role modeling. This is important. This is this is the spark that makes work come alive for us and create magic in the mundane.

Jeff Ma
Hello, and welcome to Love as a Business Strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders might shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma. And as always, I'm excited to have a conversation and hear some stories from real people around about real topics in real life. And my guest today is Jessica Grossmeier. Jessica is an advisor, speaker and the author of her brand new book, reimagining workplace wellbeing, fostering a culture of purpose, connection and transcendence. She is a leading voice in workplace wellbeing having dedicated her career to identifying evidence based strategies that promote a thriving workforce. She has published over 80 articles in peer reviewed and industry industry professional journals and presented at more than 100 industry conferences, events and webinars. And she works with employers and well being service providers to identify evidence based practices to support employee well-being and foster a culture of health. Welcome to the show, Jessica. How are you?

Jessica Grossmeier
Hi, I'm good. Thanks so much for having me, Jeff.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, I'm really excited to dive into kind of the topic of your expertise. But first, I'd like to hear from you. What is your? How would you define your expertise and passion, if you will?

Jessica Grossmeier
Yeah, good question. I've been passionate about wellbeing my whole life ever since I was first introduced to competitive athletics and sport as a kid, I loved the idea that I could control my destiny and my energy by how I took care of myself. And so in college, I discovered that there was a whole field devoted to this. That's not what I went to school for initially. But I was looking to switch majors at the end of my freshman year, and came across somebody in exercise science, and they were specifically looking at how do you apply what we know about health and well-being to the workplace, and how can workplaces foster well being? And I said to her, that's a thing. I could do that for a job it she said, Yes, you can. And so I immediately switched majors and I haven't looked back, since I'm absolutely passionate about how can we make the world of work place that actually contributes to and fosters human thriving.

Jeff Ma
So when you say kind of human thriving and well-being in these things, can you kind of holistically define it for us? Like, what do you include in that? What do you not include in that?

Jessica Grossmeier
Wow, that's a big question. And I don't have a specific definition that I've gravitated towards. Because I feel like each person has to define for themselves, what well-being means and how they're going to go after it. But I have gravitated towards the idea that well being has to be holistic, that we need to consider ourselves as systems. And whether we're talking about our physical self, or what's going on mentally or emotionally or spiritually, or financially, or career wise, those are all dimensions, but they all intersect and they'll interact with one another. And so oftentimes, when people are doing things such as a fitness challenge, they put that in the physical activity domain, or the fitness aspect of well being. But we know there's a ton of research that connects any type of movement with brain health and cognition, productivity, performance at work, how we think about and view our relationships in the world mental health, emotional health. So I feel like it's a false narrative to say you're focused on any one specific area of well being and my work has recently pivoted to include spiritual well being because it's been long recognized in the World of Wellness, early models, from the start of the field includes spiritual well being as part of one of the dimensions and yet workplaces are often reluctant to address it. And so the past year, I've been focusing a lot more on what does the research have to say about spirituality and how can workplaces support that dimension as part of a holistic approach?

Jeff Ma
Absolutely, and I couldn't agree more, right. I mean, obviously, the workplace is notoriously and least of late, known for many aspects that aren't so good for our well being, for one reason or the other. So how do you view that problem? I guess or that state of the the situation? And where does the problem lie in your in your analysis?

Jessica Grossmeier
Can you be more specific about the problem we're talking about? Because

Jeff Ma
that's my question for you like, where are the problems? And what do they look like? In your minds go from the top of your list? And what is the biggest? What's the biggest one?

Jessica Grossmeier
So last year, as I was looking into this area of spirituality and workplace spirituality in particular, I started down that path largely out of my own personal interests and trying to figure out how to how can I merge personal and professional interests in this area. And I started to see that the way the research has talked about spirituality is talked about people having a sense of meaning and purpose in their work, that they want to have a sense of feeling seen, valued and heard in the workplace, they want to feel connected to something bigger than themselves. And when we started to see the great resignation waves begin and that started while I was in the midst of this study, and they asked people who left their jobs in 2021, which was the largest on record ever, voluntary quit rate recorded by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. They asked them why they left their jobs. And they said, I want more meaning and purpose in my work, I Yes, I want fair pay and compensation and the benefits. But those are table stakes, I want to work for a company that cares about my well being and in a job where I feel like I'm contributing some value to the world, beyond just bottom line profitability. And so I was reading this, and I was reading about how the research has defined workplace spirituality. And I saw a total alignment there. And then I started to see surveys where employers are saying, what we've been doing with well being isn't working, we need to, we need a different approach. And they were looking for solutions. And some of them, obviously, are investing more in mental health, financial health, those are very important things. But it didn't address these other needs that I was seeing. And so that was one of the first real epiphanies for me as I was doing this research is there is a need that COVID And the pandemic and everything else has cracked open for us this window of opportunity, where we've identified there's a greater need that needs to be met. And there are already established solutions with research that shows workplaces how to address these needs. So that was the real spark for me, and aligning this work.

Jeff Ma
So what are those research and establish solutions for our information?

Jessica Grossmeier
Right, so I break this down into three elements. And when people talk about workplace spirituality, it's it, it's a huge ocean of thought, it's a big body of work. I can't claim to have studied all that is out there. But the three things that bubbled up across most definitions include what I mentioned earlier, people want a sense of meaning and purpose in their work. So let's start there. People want a sense of connection and belonging at work, and to feel connected to something bigger than themselves, which Id I call or label transcendence in the book. And then I break down Okay, those these are the three areas how have workplaces actually been addressing these three areas? And why would they want to what does the research say is the connection between each of these three areas and employee health and well being, as well as some of the things business we care about, and like employee engagement with their health, and performance and other types of outcomes that businesses care about?

Jeff Ma
And so that makes more sense, though, because I was going to ask about your subtitle of your book, purpose, connection and transcendence. Do you mind if we dive into each of those just a little bit?

Jessica Grossmeier
Absolutely. Let's

Jeff Ma
so starting with purpose, right? kick me off here when we will, so I can get a feel for the framework. Right? Right. We're talking about workplace well being. You said, I like how you, you subtitle it, fostering a culture of blank and the first one being purpose. So paint for me the picture of a culture of purpose.

Jessica Grossmeier
Right. You know, I think we have to pause just for a moment, Jeff, if you won't mind and talk about what do we mean by culture? Because that's a word that's been bandied around about quite a bit. Sure. And the way I think about culture, it's leadership behaviors, it's how we treat each other. So general norms and practices. It's the systems in the organization. So that could be policies, practices, you know, the way we operate with one another fee a lot of different things, the physical environment, the digital environment. So culture is all those things. And so when we talk about addressing a culture of purpose, you know, there's a lot of work that's been done around purpose driven organizations, which, as I think about that, that's about the organization identifying a purpose that's bigger than its own bottom line profitability, like Patagonia, we're all about saving the planet, that is their bigger purpose. And that can inspire people who are looking to align with that purpose. But when I talk about it, I'm also acknowledging that we need to engage and activate individual employee purpose. And that means, does what I'm doing every single day in my job, whether I'm in a bakery, or retail, or manufacturing, or a whole host of unglamorous work, that might be kind of mundane, sometimes. How do I find meaning and purpose in every single day work of my job? Yes, I can be inspired by a broader purpose that serves something greater in the world. But how do I ignite that sense of purpose every single day when I come to work? And so how do organizations do this? I think, first of all, they need to help people ask themselves the question, acknowledge that it's important. And we know from Workplace wellbeing research, and that's what I focused the last 25 plus years of my life on is workplace well being research, we know that you need to take a strategic approach and not just do one off programs. And so when we're looking at activating individual purpose, yes, it's helpful to have individual programs and education that help people think about their purpose in life, identify that for themselves. And then think about, well, how does this apply to my work? How can I live out my purpose every single day no matter what I'm doing, whether it's at work, or at home, or in my community, and so people can offer individual programs. But a more strategic approach would be for the organization to actually make that part of its mission, that we are going to help each employee ignite their purpose, and align that with the organization's broader purpose. And so that alignment work can take a lot of different forms. But I think, first and foremost, it's about recognizing, we do this because it is to the benefit of the individual. And if we can use a people centric approach, and recognize that this is an innate human need, that every single person shares, no matter what job they're in, it doesn't have to be just white collar work, it can be any, any job because this is an innate human need, that we need to appreciate that, and let's make the workplace a place where people can actually identify that for themselves and live it out. And so it starts by naming that, and then we can role model it through leadership, there are some organizations that have done this. And they've, they've started with leaders, we've seen a lot on purpose driven leadership, right, and helping leaders to identify what is their purpose as a leader, and how can they serve others? And so we have a whole servant leadership and conscious leadership movement that's emerged from that. I think the challenge is that people stop there, we need to continue it down and say, Okay, now how do I activate that for my teams, and for individuals, and you know, managers and supervisors are uniquely positioned to do this? Because when they're talking to employees about their work life experience, and are they feeling good about what they're doing at work? How do what is their what are their professional goals and aspirations? What are their dreams? You know, they are uniquely situated to help employees discover how to align their individual purpose with what they're doing in their work. And so you can build this into managerial and supervisory training so that they understand how to ask those questions, and have tools to have those conversations but then we also need to help them think about well how what is my role of influence as a manager as supervisor in contributing to thriving for every single person that I lead? How can I do that it's, it's actually sharing your own story of what you find meaning and purpose in and it doesn't just have to be in your job. There are so many parents, no matter what level of employee you are in the organization and for them, that's their number one thing. But there's been this, I think this dichotomy of we need to leave all the personal family life stuff outside the workplace, and we can't bring it in. So some of these things can be as simple as starting to share your stories about what gives you meaning and purpose in your life. And when leaders especially share those stories, they now open the invitation up for other people to share their stories and their role modeling, this is important. This is this is the spark that makes work come alive for us and creates magic in the mundane.

Jeff Ma
I couldn't agree more. And I think, you know, when we say, bring humanity to the workplace, we really just talk about, you know, when we say love, even we're really just talking about putting people at the center of our decision making right putting people first. And I think that too often we're seeing the bottom line being first and people being pawns or resources to that to that end. And I think you're absolutely right, you know, when when it comes to just making decisions, such as having intentional conversations, and acknowledging and kind of helping the person, each individual person who's every person is different. It does open up those those those two, I love hearing the way you said that. Really, really, really aligned to that. And I really feel really strongly that that that's absolutely the way to go. So I love that culture of purpose definition. Let's talk about connection. So culture of connection. What does that look like? Right? So

Jessica Grossmeier
I feel like we could talk for a whole hour about this. I, one of the early books that I read last year with Love as a Business Strategy. And I was so inspired by it, because I was also starting to read that about connection. And I feel like that book really laid out the strategy. And when I think about how do we actually create a culture of connection and belonging, people want to feel feel seen, valued and heard. And you summarize it perfectly in your book, when you talk about how, what we need to do it all starts with behaviors, and identifying what are the what are the values this organization cares about? So if it cares about employee thriving, that's a value. What does that look like? How do we translate that and, and your book actually names here, here's what it means to us. These are the values that we're going to go after. And we're going to name what those values are. And then we're going to map behaviors to each of those values in any organization can do this, they might not decide on love and the the the pillars that you identified, but they can identify how do we want to be known and shown up in the world, as individuals as teams and as an organization. And so we start to name what those behaviors are, we start to notice and pay attention to are we actually living these things out and hold one another accountable. And then we normalize them through policies and practices and the way we do things. So that we're we're constantly doing the the recalibrating to ensure that the way we do our work is aligning with these values that we've stated. What

Jeff Ma
What are businesses getting wrong, more often than not when it comes to connection in the workplace?

Yeah, but you know, it's such a good question. And I tend to be a very positive asset focused person. Sure. So just know that. So let's start with what they're doing. Right? When you look at the research on how we actually develop social connection, there are three different aspects to it. There's the structural, the functional, and the quality. The structural support is what organizations have traditionally focused on. It's the company picnic, it's the Zoom happy hours, and everybody was doing during the pandemic, it's the cooking classes. It's It's the fun ways that we come together, you know, used to be sports teams, when we could gather in person. And that's fantastic. It's only one aspect, though. And so the problem with those things is you can be in a room full of people, you can be on meetings from 8 to 5 every single day non stop and feel incredibly lonely and isolated. why? It's because you don't feel seen, heard and valued. And so how do we get below the surface of structural support? Which is, what are all the ways that we can increase the frequency of us interacting with one another? And instead talk about well, how do we deepen how we interact with one another? So now we're getting into functional support, which, which deals more with how do we get me out below the surface level? have, you know, for example, any given meeting, all we're talking about is, you know, what are the tasks? What are the tasks? Let's, you know, what do we have to accomplish as a group, and there's an agenda and objectives. But what about incorporating, infusing into those meetings, ways of people getting to know each other. And I think, because a lot of us were at home with cameras turned on during the pandemic, we began to realize, oh, there's a whole world behind this person, I never realized. And some organizations embraced that and celebrated it and said, We want to see the kids, we want to see the pets show us the artwork on your desk, they infused it into the way that they did their work. Some of them said, Come as you are, don't worry so much, unless it's a client facing meeting, don't worry so much about the veneer of professionalism and just come as you are with your hair and a ballcap. That's okay. So I think structural is about or there's the functional is about getting down below the surface and allowing people to reveal to one another who they really are. It's about authenticity and vulnerability. And then the final is around quality. And that has to do with how we are perceiving our interactions with other people. So have you ever had a meeting where maybe one person came out of the meeting, and they felt like oh, that went really, really well. You know, I just love what happened there. And then someone else might come out of the meeting with a whole different perspective about it. One of the things that I was recollecting, as I started to look into some of the research on burnout, which has flared up quite a bit, it's always been a problem, but it's really flaring. Now, when people are experiencing burnout, their way of perceiving the world is colored with a lens of cynicism, and critical negativity. And so I remember in a time, in my career, and I talked about this in my book, when I was burnt out and disengaged, and even the attaboys, you know, that you did a great job, you know, thanks so much for helping me with that company, client visit. And I would think to myself, you don't care about me, you care about what I can do for you. It's all you care about. And so I wasn't feeling quality support in my work. And I think it comes down to we're getting better and better about recognizing one another, and affirming the things we do for one another and acknowledging that, but we also need to affirm who we are to one another. And so that starts by helping people to understand that you see their strengths, you see who they are as a person, and you're valuing the unique piece that they bring that other people on the team can't bring. Now that starts to affirm who I am as an individual, and not just what I can do for you. And so I think that type of thing gets more at quality support. And we can teach these things when you're doing you know, when you're sending a thank you note to a team member, how do we go deeper in that acknowledgement? How do we celebrate one another for who we are and celebrate the beautiful diversity that exists within each of us and value that?

beautifully put? And I have a side question, I guess is how much both both of us talk about leadership being key and being the people to model these types of things. I'm curious, though, how much of this mindset also has to be addressed, you know, at all levels. So for instance, we all know that our intentions don't always match what the impacts are. And for better or worse, we're human. And so we we say things, do things with one intent, it may not always come off that way. But you know, taking your example or just talking through, you know, maybe someone not feeling appreciated someone feeling victim to some some leaders, decisions or things like that. I think we both agree that leaders have to have that, that ability to kind of, you know, support, be real, be vulnerable, build trust through that. How much of that in your mind, that equation is also on the recipient on the person to receive the quality? To be able to have a mindset that, you know, forgives or is able to, you know, maybe they've had only bad bosses their entire life. So how much is it on them to be able to also say, You know what, maybe I'm making myself a victim here, or things like that.

Jessica Grossmeier
Yeah, I think there needs to be a real reciprocity in our relationships with one another at work. So everyone owns the culture, not just the executive leader, not just the manager and supervisor. Every single person owns the culture because if it's about naming noticing normalising every single person has a responsibility to do that. And so it starts with, what do I value? What is my meaning and purpose? How does that align with what our team and our organization is saying? Is, is the way we want to do things around here? Hopefully those things are aligned. And then it's about reinforcing that. And so leaders, obviously, they help with the naming. They also help with the noticing and the role modeling. But then we need to build accountability systems. And that's a tough thing because it the foundation for that is trust. If I speak up and say something, is there trust there do I do I fear, recrimination for that, and in some organizations, that's not the case. And it might be in some parts of the organization and not in others. I have a very dear friend who has a wicked bad boss, who is not the kind of boss you would ever be comfortable raising, you know, when you treat me this way, it makes me feel degraded, dehumanized, small, it's not helping me perform at the level that this organization needs. And it's not just my problem, right, she would never be able to say that. And so she's got to work through the layers and talk to somebody in HR or talk to not going behind us or the leaders back and getting them in trouble. But when you when there is a fear factor bearing, you're not able to walk into somebody's office, especially in a position of power and say things directly to their face, you have to work through the systems that do allow you to notice that and for some employees, their only mechanism is the employee feedback survey, where they're being asked, How do you feel, you know, you're being supported or not supported at work, you know, the manager, supervisor feedback forums, some organizations don't even have that. And so that's a real problem. If the organization doesn't even have those feedback loops and systems that give employees voice, especially when there is fear and distrust, we have to start there, we can't expect the individual to step up and take ownership for naming and noticing when things are counter to values when there are no mechanisms to do that safely. When it comes to things like you know, the individual always viewing things in a certain way. So they might have a certain personality or a characteristic or a way of thinking about the world, that tends to always see the negative and tends to be very cynical. There's a reason for that we're hardwired to notice those things. And it can be to an advantage to an organization. But as part of individual coaching with an employee, we can say that's not the whole story. And we appreciate that you bring these things because it protects us, it helps us to see things we wouldn't otherwise see. But we also have to encourage and help people to have a growth mindset to, you know, be be, you know, not always the wet blanket when we're doing brainstorming. And so we have to, for some people help them to understand what are the skills that we need to develop? What are the ground rules around how we work with one another. And, you know, sometimes that comes down to performance issues. And people need need to be coached very intently on how to show up in a more positive way, in a supportive way for their co workers. You know, sometimes sometimes you just have a bad fit, you know, you just have relationships that aren't gelling. And so then it's, is there another team where this organization or this person would fit in the organization?

Jeff Ma
Got it. Thank you for that. Yeah. Finally, culture of transcendence.

Jessica Grossmeier
Yeah, this was exciting. And I think it's scary for people because that sounds a little woowoo. As I embarked on this chapter, I knew that it needed to be named because when people talk about spirituality, they talk about connection to something bigger than themselves. It's that those experiences of awe and wonder and beauty those, those sparks of moments. They're those those momentary sparks of brilliance in our day, that ignite our imagination, and our creativity. There's a lot of science supporting how organizations can do this mindfulness is probably the most well researched way that organizations are doing this. And so mindfulness and meditation practices are about introducing presence and awareness consciousness into what we're doing in every single moment. And it's hard because we're in a multitasking culture stuff coming at us all the time. And so there are a lot of systems an organization can build in to help cultivate presence and awareness. And I don't have time to go into all of that. But that's one area that organizations are working with. Another is around celebrations. There are books now emerging around rituals, the art of ritual, how do we celebrate honor, reward and recognize people in the everyday moments, it doesn't just have to be the service anniversary or birthday, it can be the small rituals that you build in. And there are two books that were published during the pandemic over the past couple of years that talk about workplace rituals, and how we can incorporate them into event the small moments every single day. And it's things like bringing poetry and beauty and music into everyday work. And we can do that artwork. So that's a whole nother area. And then exposure to nature is a huge area, a lot of people experienced transcendence when they're in nature. And so that's why we do team building hikes, right. That's why we expose people to nature, whether it's bringing the outside in through windows and plants and fountains into the workplace. But if you are in a type of environment, that's very industrial, there's a lot of concrete, you don't have a lot of windows for whatever reason, the work isn't conducive to allowing nature and virtual reality technology, you can build that into a quiet space room where you have VR tech, and people can take a break and experience a Himalayan hike. And when they're studying transcendence and awe in a lab. They use VR technology to create those self transcendent experiences for people so that they can study what happens when people experience transcendence. So it's entirely possible to bring these strategies into the workplace.

Jeff Ma
That's awesome. I love it. There's so much more for me to learn across this and all the other things that you have written about and talked about. But of course, I want to also save time for you to talk about the book itself and what you're working on so that people can follow and get in touch with you what, what's the best way— talk about the book a little bit and how to reach you.

Jessica Grossmeier
Yeah, thanks. So the book, first and foremost, it was written for people who have responsibility for people well being in the workplace. But one of the things that has really surprised me is the number of people who are buying copies for friends for their passing around, I'm like, wait, they don't have responsibility for HR or benefits or whatever. And they're like, everybody can do this. And so that's, that's one thing. One of the things that I incorporate into the book, and I made a very conscious decision to do this was to open each chapter with my own personal work life, spirituality story, my journey. And it starts with quite a big wake up call that I experienced in my journey about 10 or more years ago, and how it really surfaced to me answering the answering these big, bigger questions, why I needed to do that, and how I did that. And that's what has led me down the whole road of discovery in in this area. So that's the way I approach the book. And I think even if people don't like all of the research and reference citations, and they're not doing this for their job, I think that everybody has a chance to benefit from hearing other people's stories of how they've encountered similar challenges with burnout, disengagement, impostor syndrome. It's all there. I've got my worst performance review ever outlined in a story. So I think it gives people a sense of something that they can gravitate to. And it translates some of the research into what does this look like in the real world and why we need to address it in terms of how people can be in touch with me in this work. The book is now available on Amazon very soon to be wherever books are sold. So that's coming in the next day or so. And I am putting primary attention on LinkedIn. So if people want to find me just go to my LinkedIn page, easy to find me and you can continue to follow what I'm doing in this area and how I'm trying to unpack the whole book into these digestible chunks. And then pointing to other people who are actually doing the hard work in the trenches of helping employers address purpose, connection and transcendence at work. That's just part of me naming it and describing it. It's just part of the story. How can organizations tap into resources to do this? So that's what you can get on my LinkedIn page. And then also on my website, JessicaGrossmeier.com. I have a lot of free resources out there.

Jeff Ma
Awesome, we'll be sure to link that in the show notes. And that's reimagining workplace wellbeing, fostering a culture of purpose connection and transcendence available. By the time this episodes out, it should be available for sure. So Jessica, thank you so much for sharing. Just a tidbit. Really, of all the things that you have to share with us and teach says I really appreciate the time today.

Jessica Grossmeier
Yeah, thanks so much. And I really appreciate the work you're doing with Love as a Business Strategy. Thank you for bringing that into the world as well.

Jeff Ma
I view us as all part of this big crazy team trying to do the same thing in different ways, trying to find different ways to slice it for people to figure it out. I think we're all trying to reach the same outcome. So it's it's wonderful connecting. I agree. To our listeners, thank you so much, as always, for tuning in. And please be sure to check out Jessica's book as well as ours Love as a Business Strategy available on Amazon. And if you haven't subscribed, do that. If you haven't told a friend, please do that. You haven't left a review on Amazon, which I'll do for you, Jessica, when your book comes out. Please be sure to do that because that always helps as well. So with that, we'll see everybody next week. Have a good one.