Chellie Phillips  
culture is one of those fluff words ever, you know, it's like, well, what you can't put a number on culture and like I disagree, you really can. You can sit here and see how you're going to benefit, you're going to have people not hitting your benefits your wellness benefits as much because they're going to be happier, they're going to be more content, they're going to feel like they're part of the program, you're going to have less absenteeism, you're going to have higher productivity, which means higher profits for the organization, better use of the materials and the supplies that you have because people are not wasting it or wasting their time.

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business. We want to tackle talk tackle:)

I'm going to actually restart getting sorted. All right, take two. Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma. And as always, we're here to have conversations and hear stories about how real people and real businesses operate. My guest today is Chellie Phillips, a coach, corporate trainer, motivational speaker, and host of the Culture Secrets podcast. She's also the author of several books, including her latest entitled culture secrets, secrets any leader can use to build a value culture. And that's value spelled out as an acronym that I definitely will be diving into today. She spent over 25 years in the utility industry where she received numerous state and national awards for first rate communication and public relations skills, including the 2022 Laberge award for strategic communications from the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association. Today, she uses those same skills to help people create an authentic personal brand designed to get them noticed and hired. And Chellie is on a mission to help others tune into what makes them great, package it properly, and use their existing skill set to find the path to their highest potential. She's developed award winning employee engagement programs which have received national recognition and are now being modeled across the US. And she works with corporate leaders to design and create company culture, encouraging employee support, growth and community. So with that, I'm ready to talk about value. So welcome to the show. Shelly. How are you?

Chellie Phillips  
Thanks, Jeff. I've been looking forward to this conversation and I can't wait to talk value with you and your listeners.

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely Chellie. I'd love to start with a little bit about you, but specifically about your passion. What are you passionate about? And how did you get to this passion.

Chellie Phillips  
So the journey to where I am now actually began, long before I even knew it was going to be the path that I was going to be on. For several years, I volunteered with a national sorority on a college campus in Alabama, and I was an advisor. And so I dealt mostly with the leadership of that organization. So these are your high achieving women, you know, they're, they're balancing classes, they generally are working yet they're part of this organization, and they're leading others. And so we grew that organization from about 40 members a semester to over 200 a semester, in the time and doing that by creating a culture that, you know, people felt at home and that they felt like they were part of and that they just wanted to continue to experience and be being able to actually feel that they were contributing to something greater than themselves. And so that was my first taste into culture building. And it really had nothing to do with the workplace at that time. And then transitioned into the personal branding, because those same women were leaving college, and a lot of them if they they got their diploma, and they didn't find work right to begin with. And they took what I call get by jobs, whether that was coffee shops, or retail or secretarial, administrative, whatever it was that they took, when they did get the offer, and they feel they were coming in 5 - $8,000 less than what their counterparts who got the offer right out of college are receiving. And I couldn't understand why I've got real world work experience. How did that dumb down my education any? And so really started working with them on interviewing and how do you position yourself and how do you use the fact that you've been employed, you've dealt with customers, you've dealt with coworkers, you've been dependable? How can we work that into the narrative so that it becomes a asset for you? Rather than Hey, it took me a long time to find a job. And you really turn that around and spark that conversation. then make you the more valuable candidate for someone to hire. And then when I really got into it, really working on culture, and really working on career branding is what I, what I really worked with with people now is I had a really sucky boss, a guy that I worked for, for years retired, and a new person came in, and it was like you lost a seat at the table, you lost the fact that you felt valued, and that you weren't even part of the conversation that was taking place anymore. And what it did to me was, it made me realize how quickly one person could impact how I felt about myself, whether I was still a value to the organization, or were my skill still something that mattered? Were they antiquated, like, why why is this person not getting what I do? And why do they not think it's valuable anymore. And so that was really the first step into company culture. And what I call now building people centered cultures, because what I learned really fast was that all leaders that are not necessarily people builders, and they don't get that training in school, they don't get that on the job unless they've had a coach or a mentor, or something that really emphasize that thing. And so that's kind of how I ended up where I am now, really focused on culture and on people and helping them be able to showcase the value that they bring to the table.

Jeff Ma  
appreciate you sharing that, I think that's constantly an understated kind of aspect of, of culture where it is it is something that everybody in the organization or team brings to the table. But man, just the one effect of a leader, on on on a person is enough to make or break the job. And so that's such a powerful reminder that I really want to dive straight in because you put little periods after each letter of the word value. And so I'm ready to take some notes. I'm excited, can you? Can you dive us into VALUE what that means when you use it like that? Yeah, absolutely.

Chellie Phillips  
So it's really funny, I actually woke up at three o'clock in the morning. And I had not planned on writing this book last year, or for it to come out this year, like I had written to previously. And I was like, Okay, I'm kind of done writing for a while and take a little break from the writing. And apparently that was not meant to be actually woke up and could not go back to sleep until I wrote down the acronym and started making notes on how I can do this kind of thing. And so value culture to me is the V is vision and values A is accountability, L is leadership, you is celebrating the uniqueness of the people inside that organization. And E is the engagement and excitement that you create from building this culture. And it's a real simple formula that I think if people really get clear on those five pieces, and the thing I want to really emphasize is that the culture inside one organization is not going to be the same at the next one or the next one, they should be very authentic to you and your organization and the people that work there. And you can't really it's not a cookie cutter thing, even though what I found when I was doing the research and interviewing a lot of business leaders is that they they all fall into this little bucket, they may not call them the same things. But your vision and value is so important that not only are you as a leadership team, but your employees and your customers all know where you're going and what you're doing. And you know, you can't have great leadership and employees are not going to follow you if you're not accountable. But that accountability doesn't stop with your leaders. It also in it's individualized to each person that's there inside that organization, because it's all about self accountability, how am I going to show up? What are the behaviors that I'm going to model. And so just moving down the line, no matter which piece that you pick, or what you call it inside your organization, you've got to do things that fit under all five of these little categories for you to have a strong solid, human centered culture inside your organization.

Jeff Ma  
I love that I love I love a good acronym, first and foremost, but I love it when it's really connected to like you mentioned the human element of things. And so I think a lot of these words may be like, you know, already used vision values, leadership engagement, these types of things. If you don't mind, maybe we could spend a little bit of time on each and really highlight where that human human element or the love kind of shines through and what that looks like for the listeners to kind of get an understanding of that.

Chellie Phillips  
Absolutely. So I'll start with vision and values. Make sense? It's it's the first letter of the acronym. So let's just start at the top in order but yeah, you know, so but the thing is, is that the CEO can't determine the values or the vision of the organization. You can have input but unless your employees are bought in unless your leadership team is bought in, it doesn't matter what you're sitting in your office thinking You really have to create that buy in. And the way you do that is by getting out, get on the floor, get to know the people that are working for you get to know their lives and their histories and really build those connections with people. What I like to tell when I'm when I'm doing the corporate training, or when I'm in working with a company, is I think it's very interesting when you take your leadership team and see what five values do you think your or what your company is known for? What if you had to pick the five values that everyone who works here says this company is about. And then you take it out to different teams and different groups and ask them the same thing. A lot of times when I get there, they're not the same things across the board. And, and that's because so many teams and so many pieces of the of the organization, we've become very siloed, thanks to COVID, and different things that have happened and remote work and all these different things people have, you know, like you don't interact, and you don't connect as much as we used to. And so it's easy for those things to get lost. And vision is more than I tell people vision is more than just a mission statement. It's not just that saying that's on your wall that you want people to remember, vision is about the future. And when you can get your people to see that vision and make them feel like they're contributing to the success of the organization, and that there's a future, then they become part of that success plan for that organization at that point in time. And, you know, it really makes me feel like I want to be here every day, I want to show up, I'm excited about what's going on. And so when you can create those values as a team, and by team, I mean the entire organization, when you can get that buy in, and you can get those values all in alignment. Because you know, especially in today's when you do a lot of the the talking with this millennial generation that's coming into the workplace, and even the younger generation after that. They want to feel that their work matters. They want to feel that their values as a person can be seen in the places that they choose to work as well. And so you don't know what those are unless you're asking your people what, what what matters to you, what do you care about? What do you want to be associated with. And, you know, sometimes that's hard for, especially for old school leaders, you know, that's not the way we've done it in the past. And so it's really kind of retraining the way we think about things. And it really is adding that human element, which I think is that love that you're talking about is that we all bring something to the table. And because of the experiences that I've had in life, other places that I've worked with my family, with the travels that I've had in everything, I show up differently than the person sitting in the cubicle next to me. And it's important that that's realized. And it's important that it's woven into the fabric of that organization.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, I think vision values is is a constant topic on this show. And it's often you know, the myth we continue to dispel is in the the kind of the kind of approach of the word smithing and perfecting of some sort of banner to put up on a wall. And and I love that you're highlighting the reality of getting, like you said, getting out of your office and talking to folks and getting to know them. That's really powerful.

Chellie Phillips  
So, I was gonna say it that that leads right into that accountability piece that A, because the thing about having your values is, so let's say I think everybody needs to be honest, that works here or that they need to be hardworking or they need to be innovative or whatever the catchphrases that we come up with being able to really set some defined behaviors, that shows what that value looks like in the workplace is key to being successful and making sure that everybody is on the same page. It also builds on that accountability, if, you know if I'm going to tell customers exactly what's happening with their order, or I'm going to make sure my supervisor is aware of any issues or whatever it is that I'm going to be an honest, you know, straightforward employee, you know, whatever value that you have, you've got to have behaviors assigned to those so that people understand, because words mean different things to different people. And so if you don't have a clear set of behaviors, that show up in those values that you're saying, This is what we're going to live by, we've all agreed inside this organization, this, this is how we're going to be this is the type of people that we want here. This is a type of service that we're going to provide. Okay, we did that. So now let's define what that looks like. That becomes the basis for your your evaluations, it becomes the basis for the conversations that you have over promotion, over hiring over all of these things, because it's very clear at that point in time that I'm holding you accountable to these set standards. We all agree that we are going to be these people and this is how we're going to do it. And again, it's not Something that can always be done from sitting in your office, you need to get out and see what these things look like to different departments. Are there different measures in different teams, because maybe one team is a production laden team. And so you're dealing with putting pieces together and making products and everything, maybe one is transportation, logistics, it, there's going to be different measures in different departments. But they can all funnel back around those same set of core values that you're creating. So this is where I think you can have a little bit of flexibility in the teams and in the the departments and divisions inside your organizations is that those values, and the behaviors need to reflect what's happening inside there. But they've all got to be bat tied into that same set of core values that you came up with. And so when you do that, not only are you holding your individual employees accountable, you're holding your supervisors, your managers, your team leaders on up to your CEO, accountable for making sure that my teams are doing the things that we said align with our values.

Jeff Ma  
That makes sense. And I think one of the challenges I consistently come across is just in general, when you talk about cultural elements and the behaviors that you want to see that back up things like your values, accountability becomes a very gray area for many, I think people have different ideas of what accountability looks like, who it should come from, and how it's delivered and what it feels like even. I'm curious, what is your kind of vision of accountability or your kind of version of accountability when it comes to these things, some of these things that are less tangible? Or maybe some of these things that are behavioral, not always clearly delineated? How do you hold? What does accountability look like in those spaces. So

Chellie Phillips  
it really begins with defining that set of expectations for each of those values. You know, I think when you have that, that clear delineation that in this department, this is how we're going to show whatever our values are. And this is what we've agreed on as a team. And as an organization. That way, there's no there's no real guessing as to what what do I mean by this. So dependability, it may mean showing up at work on time, it may be following through with reports on time, it may be, you know, getting linting helping hand if someone's struggling to get something done, and you have the piece of information that can help, you know, like, whatever it is you define is the team. So each person then has to take that individual accountability. And I think at that point in time is if you if you can instill it down to that level, then you've done a great job as a leader and as a, as a as a team lead or anything else at that point in time. Because self accountability is something you really can't teach it's, it's something you either have or, you know, you can kind of work it into people sometimes through your evaluation processes, and different things like that, holding their feet to the fire to make sure that you're meeting certain criteria that you've laid out there. But really, it's a choice that I make as an individual am I going to show up this way this day. But the best way that we can do that is that we have people who are modeling the behaviors in that leadership role. So if I'm talking about I'm going to show up on time, I'm going to do these things, I'm going to give and receive feedback, if it means I'm going to make sure our customers have high satisfaction because I'm going to provide great customer service. My team needs to hear me doing that same thing as the leader of that group as well. And then I need to be held accountable as that leader to the higher CEO, whoever's over me at that point in time to say, are you living by what we said that you need to do? Are you showing up that way and having, you know, it's a never ending, it's a back and forth, you know, it's going from this level to this level to this and then also back to here. Because as I am modeling the behaviors I want, I need to be able to have those conversations with my employees. And really be authentic to the fact that, you know, I screwed up today I had a crappy day at home before I came to work. My kids were all out of sorts, you know, they were late to school, they missed the bus, the dog was puking on the whatever it is that happened that day. Maybe I came in and my attitude wasn't right that day. And I took it out on the first employee that I had an issue with, as that leader, I've gotten to show up with enough accountability to go back to that person and say, I'm sorry, I had a day to day I took it out on you. That is not the expectation that you should have. For me, I'm aware of that. I want to tell you why it happened and how I'm going to make sure this doesn't happen again. So when I'm doing that, I'm showing my employees how to be accountable for what they're doing as well. And then also taking ownership of the fact that, hey, we're human and we don't get it right every day either. So there's some grace in that as we're going through this process, learning how to be leaders learning how to work as a team inside the organization.

Jeff Ma  
That sounds like accountability to me. Let's go Move on to the L, I think you said leadership. That's

Chellie Phillips  
all about leadership. And like I said earlier, you know, a lot of times leaders are not taught how to lead. You know, a lot of people get put in these positions because of seniority they've been here for years. Or maybe they know a specific process better than anybody else knows it. And you know, so a lot of times I say, you gotta give some leaders a little bit of grace sometimes in this process, because if you did not prepare them for this role, if you have not taught them how to be a coaching leader, which is what I think we need to build these human centered cultures that I'm talking about, is that you need someone who is able to have conversation that is willing to get what I call down and dirty and get real with people find out what's going on with their lives, find out why they're even at this job. And why it matters to them as if you had the paycheck is the peripheral part, usually. But I picked this job because of either I enjoy this type of work, or I'm intrigued by it, or I have a skill for it or some other reason, probably other than just the paycheck. And so it's important for us to be able to know that. And then it's also important for us as leaders, if we're wanting to develop this team is that you don't need to be the same, you don't need to be that same leader 10 years from now, you need to grow and develop as well. And so when you can show your team that you're growing, that you're learning, that you're changing the way you do things, it makes it easier for them to accept the fact that things are going to change inside this organization throughout the process as well. And change doesn't always have to be scary and bad. Sometimes it can be really great, because it's taking us to a new level that we weren't at before. And so really focusing on what makes a good leader, providing those internal opportunities for people to try and fail and learn from those and not be penalized. And the fact that okay, you never get to try to be a leader again, because you didn't get it right the first time. You know, to me, I think that's one of the big disservices that we do in the workplace sometimes is that we put people in positions that we haven't prepared them for, and then hold them accountable for not getting the results that we wanted. And so if I'm going to promote somebody, or if I'm going to work with somebody to get them there, my job as that leader is to help coach them along the way, and help create other leaders so that when I move on, or whenever I'm moved to a different place, there's somebody ready to take my spot to step into my shoes and be able to carry on with whatever and even make it better than what I made it when I was there.

Jeff Ma  
I love that I love this broad topic of leadership and I love that you narrowed in on the parts that I think are most important as well, which is the vulnerability and the ability to make mistakes and be real, there's like nothing to me more powerful than a strong kind of positioned leader showing the human side of of their their errors, their mistakes, their mindsets changing, that is so powerful for people to see because it enables everyone that gives them all that permission to follow along and be be themselves and be human and be the be daring and take risks as well. So it's just so much,

Chellie Phillips  
especially, you know, I've done a lot of research, especially working with the sorority women for so many years on women in the workplace. And it's always been really interesting to me, I think the statistic in it may have changed a little over the past couple of years is that, especially for promotion, that females almost will not apply for an internal promotion, if they don't have 100% of the skills, abilities, or whatever that they think written in that job description, as a male, if they have 40%, they will actually go ahead and apply for it and come in with a mindset is that, oh, somebody will teach me or I can learn the rest because I got this little piece and I can do that. And so what I'm hoping with this, especially, you know, being a woman in the workplace for so long is that, you know is that people have that confidence. And they're being brought up in an environment where more and more people, female or male are willing to step out and say, hey, I want to be a leader, I want this next opportunity. And I know that I'm in an environment where if I screw it up, someone's going to help me figure out what I'm doing. And I'll be able to be even better at what I'm doing because I've had this opportunity. And so, you know that that's one of the things I'm really passionate about when I'm when I'm working with clients and everything is that, you know, what, what is your tolerance for failure? I mean, there are certain places inside an organization especially when, you know, I come from the utility world where, you know, safety is is big because someone could lose their life doing their job and you know, on a daily basis. So there's zero tolerance for not doing things safely because, well, someone could might not go home again if you do that. But you know if it's  accounting or if it's in some of these other areas, maybe there's a little more tolerance for certain things in certain places. And we can build that in to the framework as we're growing our people inside that organization.

Jeff Ma  
Love it, let's jump to U. I think the U stands for uniqueness. But what was the whole phrase that you use for this,

Chellie Phillips  
so it's celebrating the uniqueness of your people inside the organization. And, you know, I know diversity, inclusion, and all that is big buzzwords right now. But to me, I really like it phrased this way a little bit better. Because what it does to me is that we're all unique. And like I said, earlier, we all show up with the experiences that we've had in life, they've made us who we are today. And so how I react to something or how I feel about something is going to be totally different from you based on the background that you have. And inside an organization, I think it's we spend over 90,000 hours of our life at work. And so I'm going to spend more time probably with the people that I work with, than I even do with my own family members a lot of times, and so I you know, I tell it, you have to treat it almost like a mini family kind of situation is like, you know, everybody has that Uncle at Christmas time that they're like, oh, I don't want to get stuck next to the table, because they're going to talk politics the whole time, or they're going to, you know, they're going to never be happy, they're going to be grumpy about everything, or whatever is going on, you know, to make that dynamic what it is. But when we really start celebrating the rest of our people, I think diversity inclusion, and all of that takes care of itself. Because what it does is it forces us to recognize the skills that people bring to the table, the value that they have, and what they bring to the organization, and also what their presence actually adds to it. So that diversity is celebrated. The fact that we all have different skills and ability are wired and and the other thing about that is that everybody's on their unique path for what they consider success. You know, what looks to be success, for me may not be the same as you may not be the same for the person next to me working in the cubicle beside me. And so what it is, is that it takes each of us as an individual, and maybe I am someone that's happy, I'm showing up, I'm doing my job, I'm doing the job the best I can, I want to go home at five, I don't want to have to worry about my job again until I come back the next day. And then I'm going to show up and do it to the best of my ability, take my paycheck home, and I'm going to be great. Or maybe I'm the person next to you that has, Hey, I've been here for two years, I'm ready for the next step. I want to be challenged, I want to see what's going on. I want to see what my promotion levels look like, I want to know, is this where I want to stay forever, are you preparing me for the next stage of my career, the next whatever. And so, as leaders inside the organization, it's also very important for us to figure out what success looks like for the individual members of our team. Because that path is going to be different for everyone. And, you know, I think leaders have gotten complacent a little bit in the workplace is that we think everybody wants the same things. And that's not the case anymore. And I think you know, this past several years in the world have shown us that is that some people are now are totally real evaluating Is this what I still want to do with my life, I'm even when I graduated in it may have been what I've done for the last 20 years. But hey, I'm ready for a new challenge or something different, or I don't have the same responsibilities that I used to have. And I can do something that maybe I enjoy more now than what I did when I thought I was just paying the bills and the mortgage and the kids college tuition. And so being able to bring each person into that conversation, build the relationships with them, see what they truly are after, and build that into their work plan and their development as an employee, you know, really celebrates that uniqueness of who they are. And it makes us a stronger organization for it.

Jeff Ma  
I love it. I think I think like you mentioned DEI and all these topics. They're so so important. But I think in their importance they get kind of repeated and discussed in some of the same ways over and over. And I love the framing I think that celebrate the uniqueness of people is is a great way to take the same outcomes, but approach it from a different angle that really is about individual people's wants, needs desires and success. I think that's beautiful. Thanks. Let's let's tackle the last one engagement excitement the E

Chellie Phillips  
Yeah. So you know, the plus side is when you do all those the first four things, you're gonna build that excitement and that engagement in your employees. And you know, people I think get really last in what is engagement? What is recognition and what is all this happening and you know, recognition is not a pizza party. It's not a shirt with a logo on it. It's not a bag of swag, whatever. You want to call it, it's really going back to that uniqueness that person has is recognizing what they're contributing individually and talking about it. You know, most people just want someone to recognize the fact that I've done a good job doing this, or I have a skill that is needed here that that people are noticing. Or maybe I landed a great client. And I want people to know that, hey, I worked hard for this. And I accomplished something that's not just good for me, but good for the organization as well. So when you really work on creating that engagement, which you do, when you start by building values together, when you have chord, a set, you know, a set of behaviors that you're all going to live by, when you have coaching leaders, and you're celebrating what everybody brings to the table, you have an engaged workforce, because they've been part of this whole growth process throughout their, and you're now you're gonna see it show up in productivity, you're gonna see it show up and profitability, you're going to see show it in customer satisfaction, your employee engagement surveys, and satisfaction surveys are going to show up that much better. And so it's funny, it's coming from utility world, everybody is all about numbers, because there's so many engineers and accountants that are in this world. And so culture is one of those fluff words, every you know, it's like, well, what you can't put a number on culture and like I disagree, you really can, you can sit here and see how you're gonna benefit, you're gonna have people not hitting your benefits, your wellness benefits as much, because they're going to be happier, they're going to be more content, they're going to feel like they're part of the program, you're going to have less absenteeism, you're going to have higher productivity, which means higher profits for the organization, better use of the materials and the supplies that you have, because people are not wasting it or wasting their time. So to me, it's very tangible that so when you're when you're talking about this inside the organization is that people move past that that oh, this is just a fluff word, it doesn't really mean anything, there's no meat on it, like, you know, I really disagree with that, that there really is some meat. And that engagement piece is what you're really going for. And where I really think it is key is that you know, is that you're going to create long term employees, people who want to be there who are happy to be there. And those people are going to be the ones that you're going to help are going to help what I call turn into brand ambassadors. So they're going to talk about you in the community, they're going to talk about you to their friends and their and their their circle of people that they encounter. And that's going to help you pull better candidates to come to work for you in the future. Because when they're talking about all the great things that are going on inside your organization, how you're investing in them as employees and helping them reach the goals that they have, you're going to see this pool of people that want to be part of what's going on, going to be more aligned with the people that you want to hire, because your people are exhibiting these values, which means the people that they're surrounding themselves with, probably have the same set of values as well. And they're going to likely be the ones that they're talking to and encouraging the show up. And so then you just create that excitement, not just for now, but for the future of that organization as well.

Jeff Ma  
I love it. I think, you know, first of all, congratulations on a great acronym. Again. That's all I love. I love acronyms. So this one nails it, you hit it right on the head on these five different things. As we close out here, is there any kind of, I guess, high level advice or starting points for people across these five things? Who now understand it? But like, where do we I guess like, how do we apply it better?

Chellie Phillips  
Yeah, absolutely. So first thing I would say is take an internal Look at yourself. Like, you know, whether you're the CEO, whether you're working in a cubicle, whatever you're doing is like first take that look at yourself as How am I showing up every day? Am I exhibiting what I think are the true values of this organization? Or what I want those values to be? Make your own internal list? And then start looking at it every day and checking it off? Am I doing this? Am I modeling this behavior? Do people who interact with me on a daily basis? Do our customers get this treatment for me that all the time, you know, and like I said, have a little grace with yourself. Because sometimes self reflection is that hard piece of it is that we don't take the time to stop and really think, how am I showing up today? Or have I done this and maybe you do 70% of the time, but 30% of the time you haven't. And then it's about taking that ownership of it and being like Okay, so next week, I'm going to do 75% of the time, I'm going to show it this way. And then next week, it's ad and the next week is whatever. And one of the things that I've been really working with is like, so what if my company isn't interested in culture, but I'm a single person sitting in a cubicle, can I impact culture in my organization? And so really been addressing that with a couple of my personal coaching clients and the answer I think is yes. Because what's happening in your cubicle is going to spread to the next one and to the next one and sooner or later people are going to wonder, Well, why is this whole team With people much better, why are they more productive? What's happening? Why do they all get along? Why do they all go to lunch together? Why do they all have conversations and seem to like each other? And why are they more productive? Why are that, you know, why are all the good things happening over here now. And I really do think that moment of self reflection, whether it is on the CEO level, or whether it's on just your your normal, I'm showing up working eight to five, worker level, it can have a huge impact on the organization. And that's the easiest place to start. It's always easier to start with ourselves than it is with the entire organization.

Jeff Ma  
100% aligned, I think, many many parallels in what we speak about and love as a business strategy and everything you've outlined today. It's It's spot on. So Chellie, thank you so much for the time you took today to kind of walk us through this stuff and give us your views on culture in the workplace and this value system you've created.

Chellie Phillips  
I've enjoyed being in the conversation as you can tell, it's something I'm super passionate about. And you have to cut me off and make me quit.

Jeff Ma  
So culture secrets is out. Now. I think it came out just in in April in April this year. Yeah. And so that's it's it's added to a list of books that you've put out about with that help employees and other things in the workplace. So hope everybody gets a chance to check out culture secrets. I found it on Amazon. Where else can they find it? I'm sure Amazon is one

Chellie Phillips  
of the main booksellers that's out there. A lot of the major ones have it in the store. So perfect,

Jeff Ma  
awesome. So please do check that out. And thank you for tuning in. As a listener, please do continue checking us out, podcast book, all that good stuff. And so if you aren't sharing with your friends, please do. And we really appreciate all the time that you spend listening to me talk and people like Chellie talk, because we're very passionate about this stuff. And we want to just keep sharing it. So it's made possible by folks like you that I'll be signing off. Thank you again, Chellie and we will talk to everybody