Chris Pitre
Hi, everyone. We're joined this week by Suna Lumeh. She is the co founder and a scientist with Aja Labs. And we're here this week to talk about STEM and how love is included or not inside of the process of research and development, listen in, join in. But most importantly, give us some feedback.

Hello, everybody, this is Chris, and I'm here with Maggie. And welcome to another episode of Love as a Business Strategy. I am subbing in for Jeff as the host. And I have a special guest with us today. And her name is Suna. And Suna is a very different guest because we went to college together. We roamed the streets. But we won't get into that we'll keep that between ourselves. I mean we have our business out there. But in addition to you know, being college alum together, Suna has gone on to do some great things across them. So she is a scientist, and she has done amazing things across pharmaceutical research. In addition to that she is a co founder of Aja Labs. But Suna, let's get into it. So would you mind telling everyone more about you and what you're doing and sort of how you've gotten to this point?

Suna Lumeh
Yeah, I guess everything always starts with like how you grow up. But my father was a civil engineer and architectural type person worked on a lot of like wastewater management stuff. Education was so key to him. So the only reason why he was able to come here was because he did come on a student visa, but he was sponsored to get his PhD out here. So for us, it's always the example of our parents, both my mom who came on a nursing visa, it's through education and through skills that you find better opportunities. My parents are from Sierra Leone, West Africa, and they were really like, able to, you know, live, you know, pieces of the American dream, I guess that way by by raising kids out here. And with that, though, came comes the other side of it, where it's just like doctor, lawyer, or engineer, like those are your options. But I actually really did like math. I liked math. And then I came to look physics. And I think that's that's why when I came to GW with Chris, it was it was

Chris Pitre
either we're not in the same class. Unfortunately, it was waste bonding. I was like,

Suna Lumeh
real good. Smart, though. Um, but yeah, so I got into engineering, I did biomedical engineering and undergrad, but my, my mom really inspired that direction, because she had been diagnosed with cancer when I was in middle school, and like she had gone into remission a couple times. But like going into college, I had this mindset where like, I was gonna find a cure, like for cancer, all of them. Oh, that was that was my note. But then early on, I was just like, I don't think I can go to med school. But I can leverage this whole Math, Math obsession, and find out if I could do like diagnostics, early diagnostics, early detection, so that that was really like my driving force coming into my young adulthood. Early on, I was able to snag a role entry level, which was like, actually looking back, of course, like it was just perfect. But I worked for a like mid sized biotech that had just gotten bought by a large pharma company. And yeah, through there, I just did a lot of diagnostics, learning how to do assay development is what you can call it. So it was just like really learning what comes at the intersection of technology enablement. And then also like, what can we do in the medical field with these discoveries and these new innovations, and so like that, that became like my driving force for a long time in my early career, and then I kept you know, moving up moving on, joined a bigger pharma that had more resources. And I slowly shifted, I guess, I, I came in an environment where so much of the business side was exposed to me, and I kind of caught the business bug, which is why I'm just like, Yeah, I mean, if you catch that bug early, it's a beautiful thing to have, where you kind of understand business and how things become sustainable systems. But yeah, in that experience, at this larger pharma company, like ice, I started not getting less less interested in the science but I just met these amazing minds that had all these ideas that you know, you know, you're working for a large big pharma company, it's pretty pretty much corporate America but in a science and r&d context. And so like my my next phase obsession became, how do I create platforms and vehicles for to get some of these ideas visible within the company? But then like, you know what, what's beyond that? How do you really like impact? And how do how do I really go from like, I think this person has a solution, I think this other person has this part of the solution, how do you create something new and so like that became my, my tippy toe into intrapreneurship, which, you know, through a couple of a lot of learning failures in a lot of big wins. I was just like, I got to go to business school now, because I think I've reached my peak internally. And now I got to start doing this externally. And so that's where I got into, like the startup scene, especially out here in Atlanta, just meeting more and more founders, people who, who really do want to contribute to innovation, and technology development, all the STEM fields and like just trying to make this world a better place. And I'm just like, I see myself working in this context. What are your ideas? Let's create let's let's build these business ventures. Because everything runs on money. This is our reality of today. But how do you how do you really find ways to go from an idea to not just a business, and an executable product or service, but then like really taking it further to like, Okay, we say we want to impact these certain areas, well, how do you make that so efficient, and then also sustainable, so that it grows in a way that really can impact the community. And so that that's kind of like where we're all my interest has been, like, finding these these brilliant minds who have all these solutions, and then taking them through the processes that I've seen, and, and through connections that I've seen any kind of partnerships, I can aurage to just see, see, see this thing be implementable in, like change communities. So that's, that's how to, where's the community and the business and the impact? So that's where that's that's how I came to be here.

Maggie McClurkin
Thanks for sharing that. Yeah.

Chris Pitre
So I'm curious, now that you are here. I love seeing the sort of intersection of business community and impact. What's your current like, either community or initiative that you really want to see impact in? Right? Yeah. And what's happening

Suna Lumeh
there? Well, okay, so So you all know, like, I started in health care, which is, you know, based on our current health care system, the USA is very slow moving, because you're dealing with life and death. Recently, like post business school, I did get more into, you know, the digital health kind of like the information, how do we get information out there? How do we educate the masses about their own health? How do we make sure that it's relevant and culturally appropriate, given where someone is, you always want to meet the patient where they're at? Again, still very slow, a lot of hurdles. And up until recently, our current fam founder, also Hanos Diego, like she had this more commercial, a product, consumer product idea, where she's trying to create hair, we're basically like creating a consumer product that's just made out of healthier materials, which is better for not only like the human wearing it, but also for the planet. And so a kind of light bulb for now, because at first I was just like, oh, this aint my area is not healthcare. This thing me, let me go find let me go find you some some more talent who works in this kind of space, but then, you know, taking a step back, I'm just like, one, when you work in like the consumer markets, it faster adoption. Also, I think you get to come at a different angle, because it's not life and death. Although, as we did a lot of research, and we're taking like a scientific approach to create all these new fibers, we are understanding how much impact on your actual health comes from products that are just composed of materials. And substances that are just not good for you like actually will have a healthcare impact on your continued use, like if you continue to use it. So it's almost like putting it into context where I'm realizing like, I could work on the end that cures something that's already happening. But I also have the opportunity right now to work on something that, you know, gets you ahead of it, and creates an alternative that's healthier for the human being so that you don't have to worry about, you know, endocrine disruption. You don't have to worry about inhaling all these adverse chemicals that are leeching off of the products that we're consuming. And I think like when it comes to environmental justice, I was honestly never somebody who put like, the environment if that wasn't my soapbox. I was always about like civil rights and justice and, and equity, right? But honestly, coming into the space of planetary health, you just realize like the communities that get most affected by, you know, climate change. And just like environmental hazards are the very communities that suffers civil rights and justices and you so you kind of understand that it's like systemic. So the space I'm in now is, is really like creating a better consumer product that I know impacts so many, especially like black women, when you talk about hair and haircare, like just trying to create a product that informs as, as you wear it, and you use it, like makes people think it's almost like the day fast food restaurants started putting the nutrition, the nutrition on the thing now, now you have to kind of be aware of the decisions are making. So that's that's kind of the approach that we're taking, like doopy, we've never been in control of the market. So it went by we it's like the end user, it's always coming from other cultures who aren't really familiar with the nuances of how we use these products. And we just want to present an alternative that really keeps the end user in mind. People always want to quote like Chris Rock, but it's just like, now there's so many more things from when he made his documentary about good hair, like it has grown and bloom so much. So I mean, in the context of just like, the African American community, and the spending, it has now crossed over to everybody, like you see a lot of honestly, it's, it's our we're in the new video, Instagram, a zoom age driving us like, it's very hard for me not to look at myself, as I'm talking, you know? I'm just like, Yeah, but yeah, but it puts you in a position where you're constantly evaluating, you know, how you look, but the hair industry definitely has, has benefited from that, especially during the pandemic, as people became more, I guess, they had more time to invest in, you know, and in ways to enhance how they're coming off. There's lots of things driving the market. So right now, it's about $7 billion a year, that's the size of it, I think it's like 51 52% is comprised of the human hair market, which is also the sourcing of that is very questionable, problematic. And at worst, it is, you know, human rights violating. But, and then the other part of the market, like just some 50% is synthetic hair. And this is these are composed of products that are manufactured using, you know, high emissions,

honestly, devastating whole regions in other countries, just because of the context of the manufacture of producing these, just the chemical exposure. And then those, those products have to be packaged and sent over here to us, which in which, typically, you know, those chemicals are still on there and leeching off as you wear it. So, yeah, so it's a it's a huge industry with not a lot of oversight as of today. And but they're, you know, like I said, it's, it's not one in which I think the end user, women, and especially women of color have really, we there has been no innovation for decades. And so what you're seeing now is one the awareness of the contributions to you know, negatively impacting the environment, but then also understanding how it ties into women's health, or anyone who worked really wears these. And like Chris, say, like, people be dropping bags, like Oh, on this product, like, in I was never one I think I think I always leave it to my styleist because I wear braids. I always leave it to my stylist to buy the hair. But you know, upwards of like 2000 a pop, and people will spend that in like two to three times a year. Really interesting. Um, yeah. So going into like r&d stem male dominated. A lot of the seats that are held up top are our men. But what's funny about you know, when when you keep it specific to like health, in health care, what you find is a lot of the drivers of the market are women. They are the chief science officers of their homes. They they're usually the first line up to be engaging with doctors who will say yes or no to a new drug or whatever, whatever. So it's it it it is a conundrum I think, especially even in that when I see like in the hair industry or in the beauty industry, because yeah, the end users are always women. But usually what you see the decision makers are men, and I think myself coming up, I will say like, I think I've been very useful. fortunate, I guess it's like 50-50, I think, because like I said, I've always had male supervisors, I've had one female supervisor, but um, the male supervisor, it's like 50-50. There's some who really appreciate your input. And there's just going to be people out there who genuinely have a mission, a personal mission, to elevate good minds and great minds that will contribute, because it's like, it's kind of like this mentality, like, if you eat, I eat. And if I have the best team around me, we're all going to eat very well. And I've noticed that some of my best mentors are actually like white males. And it's just because they have access, right? They have privilege, they understand it, but then they also have this secondary mind, which is like, I don't care what you look like, if you show me you can do the work, if you show me that you're dedicated to this, if you make me look good. Like I will, I will give you what I know. And that's where I felt like a lot of growth for myself. And that's not to say, like, especially black women who have like, hyped me up and been there, when I've gone through phases of my career where it does get overwhelming, and you do get discouraged, they are there, I just think it's just strictly because of the lack of access that they can give, they could mentor me and coach me the same way that people who do have all that access and can see a bigger picture that some people are, are less likely to be a part of. It's something that I, I, I just have to acknowledge, like, I'm just very grateful that I met those, along with the ones who will dismiss me as soon as they see me. So that's, it's just, it's gonna happen, it's just gonna happen. And that's cool, because there's always gonna be some, if you keep your eyes open, and your head, right, you're always gonna find the ones who, who really want to help you be your greatest, and will give you what they know, because they know, you almost become an extension of their own legacy.

Maggie McClurkin
that's really cool. You were talking about earlier about how just the lack of innovation there is in the hair industry in general. And I was just thinking about that a lot. Because I feel like just in the beauty industry, it's relatively new to like, care about natural products. And that's kind of surprising to me. But I was just wondering, like, your thoughts on like, what do you think needs to happen in order to create more innovation in these industries that are that the the end user is female? And why do you think that is?

Suna Lumeh
Well, one, more female founders? Yeah, no, honestly, like more more emphasis on like, just uplifting those who have ideas and solutions. I can't not emphasize enough like, how important when when you start discussing like diversity, inclusion, and equity, how important it is to really just understand like, yes, you want to be included. But when it comes to belonging, it does not mean that you should pass off your individuality. Because your story and your path and your journey and mind you everyone's is different. And I think where a lot of us are missing out on amazing innovation is when people keep people try to go with the stream, and be something they're not or adopt something that's not them. And they forget, like how unique their own path is. So I think especially for women in the beauty industry, these are products that have typically been created. And guess that by people who are not us, right, and what you're finding now and what's what's amazing about what's going on now is that individually, I think we're all being inspired to really tap into what makes us different to tap into our pain points. And understand like, you know, what the internet, which is its own beast can also be a very positive space to to almost realize that what you're suffering through or you know, anything that has impacted you in a negative way that you think you have a solution for, you're probably going to somehow find your corner of the internet, that's going to be like, actually, yeah, I do that too. And then now you have to, you know, you validate your idea, and then try and turn it into a real solution. I really do think it's just like everybody investing in their own leadership development. And also like, you know, I'm a proponent. You don't have to go to business school, but just understand how businesses work operate and why they, why they're sustainable and why they can go on to create these multibillion dollar entities like what does it what does it go into, you might be an accountant, you might be a scientist, you might be a public health official. But if you don't understand like your industry and how it's sustainable, then it's very difficult to bring and make changes for yourself and then also like your community. So yeah to your question it really is just like promoting, informing and educating ourselves, valuing ourselves valuing our, our journeys, and then like, also just really like, yeah, honoring that in a way that you know how that fits into the future you want to see,

Chris Pitre
and just listening to you talk like it's, it's bringing to light, like the fact that and stem, there's still this, sort of, even though we're solving human issues that deal with humans, there's still a lack of humanity in certain spaces where we're not considering humans at all right? Like, if we're creating these products that are hurting humans, either knowingly or unknowingly, like, it's just, it's very interesting. Like, it's, I've, I've always thought, like, you know, you hear medicine, and you hear these, you know, pharmaceutical things, and you hear people making consumer products, and you just always assume that everybody's doing what's right by the consumer

Suna Lumeh
know, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. And by squeaking, I mean, like money, money, a lot of decisions everywhere, everywhere. And it's, I was actually just talking with another founder and her product, while it is so necessary, she makes a artificial eyes or for prosthetics, and it's just like, you know, finding where the money would actually allow her to serve the populations around the world that really need this. That's, that's the hurdle. And it's it, you know, even coming from pharma, you see, like different disease states, what's behind whether they make this decision or that decision is just like it, but look, a lot has to go into, into actually getting through a process of drug development, and then getting it approved. That's all costly. Can it be sustained? You know, there's only but so many Mark Cuban's, right, who have these ideas of just like, look, we're just going to go out there and give the people what they need. And in somehow it's going to be viable, but really Money, money drives a lot of decisions. And, and it's, it's the reality that we live in, but it, there's always a way, especially when you again, can lean on your community and get people to kind of look at things very differently and come up with a solution. There's always a solution. I, I feel, I think the way life works is that every generation has a contribution that presents or opens up options. And I just think that like, what comes next in the industry is more alternatives, alternatives that are really putting the end user that experience at the forefront, like what what are people using hair? For? What how do When do they use this hair, what kinds of hair in like, you know, in this new kind of like hopeful, hopefully a wave of interest in science and technology and materials science, like you, you hope that the presence of companies like ours in this space will also inspire other people who think completely differently, but also had come up somehow with a different solution. And it's just like, even better. So really, like, in this is kind of how I see like the sciences is just like really, it's it exists to continuously inspire more and more, because through one generation or one, one stage of progression, you are getting the interest of new minds who think completely different, and Gen Z scares me. But they're also like, so terrific. Yeah, there's so amazing in innovate, they look, they look at life differently. And sometimes I'm just like, Y'all need to live a life and then they come back with we already lived it through y'all on YouTube. So we're on to the next. And so I'm just like, you know, you're probably right, I don't know, like the things that you're gonna come up with. Because you know, our age, you know, we gave, we gave the internet like, community, you know, and it's just like, look at how it's evolving. And I just see, like science that way I see every industry that way the beauty industry is is no different. Like I just feel like people will take it and create. So I can't predict because I think we're the most innovative in that space right now. But, but that's there's so much more to come from Aja labs. But yeah, that that's, that's really like, my personal philosophy, but I think it plays out, it has played out.

Chris Pitre
I appreciate that. I think that's a good way to look at things. And so I would love for you to give a piece of advice to our listeners. So I'm sure there are many, especially women. Let's talk to women right now who are either thinking about starting a business, thinking about like starting something that could be STEM related. What would you tell them to start, do change be, you know, your dream? If they are listening or watching right now and are they sort of nervous about taking that first step or don't know what to do?

Suna Lumeh
Yeah, um, I think it goes back to like this concept of like, coming into yourself, I think it all starts with, like, it's very difficult, I think to pursue an idea or bring it to life if if you don't have a certain level of confidence in yourself and in your own personal journey. So I think more, the first thing I would tell anybody, especially women who are looking to pursue a venture, or an idea that they have, or solution is like, really own everything about your experience that brought you to being even aware of that problem to the point where you have an idea, like, it's, it's so valid, it is so valid, it's so valid. And in today's time, like, you know, that you can look up any product that's out there, some of them are ridiculous, but they are a thriving business. And it's because somebody believed in their vision, so much so that they built the right narrative, they found the right customers, they were understanding, they were deeply embedded into the problem, they've either felt it or they were exposed to it. And I just feel like women, we, for so long, it's in maybe have been like, a multigenerational conditioning, but you know, everything. A lot of the stuff that we consume hasn't been made by us. And so it how adequate is it anymore? Like, it's, it could be a system, a service or a product like, but without my own personal walking through it and understand like, Man, I wish, I wish this whole group was different. Okay, I just had an idea. Like, can I can I actually trademark or copyright this, this a new design for something, you know, and then make money out of it, like a lot of people do. So it's really it's like owning, owning who you are and owning what you what you feel is valid in life. And you have that potential to like, really create it. So yeah, just create off of something that's very authentic. That's, that's my advice. Just create.

Chris Pitre
I think what I'm hearing from you is self love and loving yourself, loving your story, loving who you are, is the best way to launch into any new initiative, venture idea, relationship, you know, professional, right, but just knowing that you are worth something and your background, no matter how flawed, problematic, or for you, you know, unimpressive you think it might be it's worth something and it can lead to success, right? And it's a part of who you are. And taking that with you everywhere you go, is always going to be the biggest sort of differentiator that you have in a room or in a conversation or in a in a company.

Suna Lumeh
It is because it's that conviction, I think, and when I talk about like some of my great mentors, the women and men, both you that's what you also want mentoring you, someone who who's that confident in themselves, because you start to realize, like, when you start feeling it for yourself, those types of people are going to come to you because they want to know, because that's just how that mindset works. And you'll you'll find a lot of support, you'll find a lot of support. So it you may not even know what the next step is. But you'll probably be attracting a lot of people who are convinced of your story. Who who do know what your next steps should be.

Chris Pitre
Love it. Well, Suna again, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been a very enlightening episode. I appreciate your time and your candor and your wisdom. For those listening. This is Love as a Business Strategy. We release episodes weekly. We appreciate the listens. If you have any feedback, any suggestions, or you just want to say hi to me, you know, nobody else, please reach out to us. You can talk to other people you can say hi to them too um, I'm just saying like, I love fan mail. But we we had if you have ideas if there's a topic that you think we should be discussing, we'd love to hear from you. You can find find us at love as a business strategy calm, as well as on any of the major podcast tools that you might be listening to. So, again, thank you so much Suna. And good morning. Good evening and good night. Thank you so much.