Jason Marc Campbell
It's like treat people, right? Sell them good stuff, do it at the best of your abilities, and see what happens as a ripple effect.

Jeff Ma
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We always believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Jeff Ma. And as always, I'm interested in having conversations and hear stories with real people about real businesses and experiences. And today, we have a good one, I'm really excited to have this guest on the show because he wrote a book and it's called Selling with love, Earn with integrity and Expand your impact, and is also the host of the selling with love podcast, as well. So welcome to the show, Jason Marc Campbell, how are you?

Jason Marc Campbell
I'm doing fantastic. Jeff, thank you so much for having me.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, we met briefly before this show. And it was kind of like this instant kind of easy conversation and connection. Because, I mean, when you write a book, and you share a word like love between the two books, I think there's just, I'm just excited to jump, just jump right into it. So thank you so much for making the time today and chatting.

Jason Marc Campbell
It's my pleasure. I had to had frank, one of the co authors of your book on my podcast as well. And it was the same feeling I was like, yes, another partner in the mission to bring that humanity into the workplace as a business as a whole. And for me, I carved out my little piece, which is just sales, so excited to share more.

Jeff Ma
Yeah. Before we jump into the book and stuff, I just want to hear if you could share a little bit more about you personally, and kind of where your passions come from, and that journey that you've taken to get

Jason Marc Campbell
here. Yeah, it's interesting, because I like I found myself in various work environments, and everybody would label me as the sales guy. And for some people that would have a big negative connotation, yet, for me, it was always an exciting label to have. I felt so enthusiastic about being that salesperson. And I knew that if I get to have people with my enthusiasm that can be contagious and making people big decisions for themselves, making changes that makes their life better. Of course, I love selling it. And that was a unique twist. And I realize most people thought that was kind of strange, and kind of weird. But if I go to the origins, I always have the story I love to share, which would have been in my mid teens, I was growing up in Canada, and they made you do these kinds of charity drives, right? I don't know if you've ever had to do this in high school, they asked you, okay, go door to door and sell these chocolate covered elements, which were called the brand the world's finest finest. And I think their marketing was a little aggressive. I don't know if it was the world's finest but you know, everybody adds a label to sell more, I guess. But at the time, you know, I'm going door to door and I'm thinking okay, let's see what happens knock at the first, you know, neighbor's house. Just like hey, would you like to buy some chocolate for a twonies and twonies that $2 coin we have in Canada, right? And the people will be like, Wow, for $2 a great bar chocolates, delicious. Let's do it. And then people will be excited. I'm like, Oh, this is nice. I get to go to people's houses offer them chocolate, they give me $2. I raise for charity, they get chocolate, everybody's happy. So I kept doing this for a couple times. I think it's by the sixth or seventh door I knock and the person. It was a mother she she basically says, Oh, well let me ask my daughter if she'd like to buy any. And lo and behold, the daughter comes down, she's my age and was going to English school, I was going to French course I didn't know who she was beautiful woman and I'm like, Oh my god. So she ended up being one of my first girlfriends. So it's it's not by coincidence that I associated sales and love right there at a young age, where most people have an association with sales around that age about, you know, maybe buying a used car and not getting the best deal feeling taken advantage of. And so a lot of the baggage comes with it. For me, I have this very positive experience, finding myself going into retail selling swimming pools, again, transforming people's backyard into an amazing Oasis to escape or appreciate the escaping winter as summer rolls into Canada beautiful thing. I got into real estate, I was working for a great company and I was on the phones. And I was giving them a chance to get on an appointment with an amazing realtor that actually cared about them and would get them the best price for their home or find them the best home. I was excited to sell it. And lo and behold that venture I found myself in a personal growth education company called Mindvalley. And there was like wow, everything that I sell transforms people's lives for the better. I'm excited to market it, sell it abundantly. So I worked there for quite a while. And now here I am, you know having to put this book together, really talking about the essence of what happens when you do come from a place of love as opposed to what is shame and guilt. What is fear? What is you know, sabotaging ourselves rationally when it comes to selling and if people can sell from a place of love even more like I can see the good and makes in the world and this is what I want to advocate for

Jeff Ma
I love that I think that's such a unique perspective. And I think when you look at love as a business strategy, what we come at like we've we've we obviously talked about it a lot. And what we found over time is that when we, we have to kind of divide up the categories of love we're talking about when it comes to business, the main two that we often have is basically the internal like workings of your business like, and this is the one that we harp on the most, which is leaders roles within making sure that that people taking care of within the organization and within your teams and how to lead your teams through love, and create taking care of people first, which is, I would say, our books kind of main point, this podcast is made point, but then we obviously determining humanity back to the workplace and all its different shapes and forms. And so the second one that's often talked about is just like, what your business does, like the love your business puts out into the world, right for the customers for the world for charity in those other things. But we've also found, and this is where your book, I think, does an amazing job. This is a very unique space, in sales itself, where love belongs, where it's like why, you know, there's always this kind of like, like you mentioned the stigma around sales and salespeople, but also just the process of sales often has love last, right, because it's about the bottom line, it's about it's very competitive, it's cutthroat, at least perception wise, or sometimes that's reality. And so there's a unique, there's a different world that sits right there within that space that also needs love. And I think I love how your book really dives into that space specifically. And one thing that's really cool is both of our books kind of do it in the same ways where you share a lot of your personal stories, you don't kind of shove things down their throat and say this is how it should be done. You just share a lot of really lived experiences. And I love that about it, I really, really enjoyed it.

Jason Marc Campbell
Yeah, I find myself that when you write a book, you're essentially selling people a line at a time to continue reading and taking on this perspective that you advocate for. And so in the same way that I encourage people when they sell to actually, you know, use your personal experience and speak about things from your perspective, you don't want to be shoving a product down people's throat just the same way that if you're writing a book about a unique idea, especially one around bringing love in the workplace, or God forbid, in the sales room, you have to be gentle, and you got to walk people through and when you share those personal stories, I think it allows more people to be engaged and excited about taking on a new perspective.

Jeff Ma
Sure, I think the other thing that stood out for me is that, you know, one of the main kind of, I guess, foundational puzzle pieces for us when we talk about trying to create love as a business strategy is around introspection and self awareness. And your book hits the same exact tone. It's like, as I was reading through your book, it's almost like we're kind of just, we're kind of just doing a little dance around each other talking about all the same things. But tell, share with me a little bit of like, your perspective, your angle when it comes to self awareness in your book?

Jason Marc Campbell
Well, I'll first share something around the fact that you know, what I'm talking about selling with love is nothing. It's not a new idea. You know, there's one of these classic books from the 1960s called the greatest salesman in the world. It's kind of one of those like, short story books, and it talks about back in the, you know, 2000 years ago, there was this, like the richest man was a salesperson. And he had these scrolls that he had found that taught him the principles of sales. And first scroll about sales to be the greatest salesperson in the world was actually love. That was the theme. And it was so funny because it was Matthew McConaughey during an interview with my former CEO, Vishen Lakhiani, who actually suggested that book to him. And when the first girl comes up, and it's love, I wasn't even aware. I read the book and I'm like, okay, good. It's being advocated, but we need to be reminded, and oftentimes, we need to have it come from different perspectives. So when you speak about, you know, self awareness, and that kind of work is very interesting, because the way that I did my book, given that it's a sales book, this is the piece I speak about in the last chapter. Because I need to warm people up you know, like to go to a salesperson, say like, yeah, for you to get better results. You definitely need some introspection doesn't necessarily go down as easily as Hey, learn how to actually understand your target market and actually have compassion for them you'll see immediate results. But the last love because I speak about five loves of selling. The last love and selling with love is actually love the self, which talks about overcoming the fears, understanding where you have blocks, the especially the fear of rejection being a huge one that causes so many issues, for people to hesitate to not want to follow up to feel uncomfortable, feel like they're bothering people whenever they reach out and try to offer their product or service which at the end of the day, you should be in business to actually solve people's problems. And so if you would go other people saying, Hey, I'd love to suggest something that might solve problems in your life, we shouldn't feel any of that resistance as much as the conditioning has made it so that we do. And so I, I speak a lot about the practices you need to do to be more self aware of what's going on in your emotions, every time you're in a sales scenario, every time money is involved, because there's all sorts of baggage that comes up. So I get people to question the way they were brought up, and their beliefs around money, their beliefs around sales, what experiences we personally had with sales, and make sure we're not replicating the things that caused our call it trauma or reluctance around sales, to not go out and sell the same way. But to do it your way with authenticity, to be integral to the values that you have, and sell your weight that is highly effective and comes from the heart.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, and also, in my opinion, your book, may save it for the last chapter, but it kind of tricks the reader throughout, because you're basically asking them these questions to think about, they're very thought provoking. And the whole time, they basically are forced to self reflect and kind of come to their own little conclusions about where they are in their own journey, if you will. So kudos to that. I mean, sorry, if I spoil that for everybody, but it's happening.

Jason Marc Campbell
It's like I wrote a book that kind of tricks you into personal growth. But the fact that happens, once you've done this process, is you become more confident, you become more excited about selling, and you start facing whatever resistance that comes. And I find sales is the best tool for you to overcome any fears. Because there's such a high velocity of engagements with people. So you're confronting these fears one after another all the time. And so then you have no choice but to grow. And isn't it funny that in sales is like the one industry that you know, you'll never get an A plus in sales, because your closing rate will never be above 50%, in most cases, unless you're selling to only the most qualified leads on the planet. So most people might be getting excited about a closing rate of 23%. But if you were in school, that'd be failing. And then you hear entrepreneurship, that the more you fail, the more you grow. Well, guess what you're probably in the fastest personal growth industry, if sales is a regular thing you need to do, because you'll face a lot of failures, you'll learn a ton and you'll grow a ton.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, within our walls at Softway and Culture+, the work we do we have a very long standing kind of message that we'd say that, you know, we're all in sales. We firmly believe that, you know, every single interaction you have, even internally, you're selling yourself, but even like the work you do, and all those things you're selling at all times. And so we try to have a focus on, you know, not the traditional sales process for everybody. But definitely having that value focused selling kind of approach to everything we do in our day to day. So I loved kind of mixing in your perspective to like that, that in which I've always been ingrained in, right, it's just awesome to see you being dissecting that to the point you did, and how love plays a role in it is really great.

Jason Marc Campbell
I have this point in the book where I actually give a definition of sales in my own language. And as I mentioned, I did work in personal growth for a few years. So I had to introduce some of these more spiritual, esoteric terms. So I actually define sales as an energy exchange between conscious beings. And when you know, what you offer is so much more than what you ask in return, then that's the emotion of love that balance of the equation. And so I look at sales in the same way that you do, which is it's everywhere all the time, both in the professional setting, and in the personal setting. Like, what's one of the there's a people who are afraid of closing, right, and you know, one of the things that most people will be aware of as a closing line or script, might you say that typically men will find themselves experienced in their life? Maybe we'll be Will you marry me? Right? Like that's a closing line. That's the equivalent in a relationship of asking Visa or MasterCard, right? And what I find interesting is oftentimes in sales, we're talking about tactics and optimization, but I've never seen it, where it's like, you know, how many blogs or articles do you need to read on? All right, you should definitely be on the right knee, not the left knee, because that increases conversion rates by like 3%. Like, you'll often get obsessed with that. But rather, what I'm trying to advocate for in this book is, listen, the whole ethos of who you are, how you behave in every way, is what's going to create the closing that you're desiring in the way that you sell. Just like in a relationship. It's not about exactly the tone and script you use to say, will you marry me, but it's your behaviors, your character and your consistency throughout the years that makes it turn into a yes. And so this is a big value that I tried to advocate in a way of selling is that it's not just about the process. It's really about your behaviors all the time.

Jeff Ma
I love that. I love that analogy. I have 100% close rate on proposal marriage proposals. So that's that works for me.

Jason Marc Campbell
How many did you have? How many?

Jeff Ma
One on one. But when it comes to, you know, this, I think I read in your book is like you turned always be closing and to always be caring, which I thought was just the right amount of like, like kind of dad joke. Essence, I really appreciate that. But I think it's really interesting to see this element of like human like humanity be inserted into this space because I feel like we've been practicing what you've, you're saying in the book for so long like and the way it shows up for us is we tried to help others whenever possible. So whenever we're out and about whether it's just giving them a free advice or free sessions or free, you know, free things in general, but with the intent of really helping them figure out what they need, get getting them where they want, it's contrasted to how we used to go about which is like, you know, what's in it for us as we go out. So as you go out, we're looking for, you know, leads that will, you know, they have to be qualified, and they have to have meet a certain criteria to benefit us. And as soon as we switch to the mindset of, hey, how do we just, you know, if we're going to talk about love, it can't just be within our walls, it can't just be in one way. And we didn't, again, that's why I loved your book, kind of breaking it down into its dissected detail, because we did it at a very at a very rudimentary space where we're just like, let's just love everybody. And so that meant, like, even if they, if they came to us whether, you know, on the street, we would still want to, like, make sure we could figure out what isn't any, and that started coming back to us in spades like as those relationships built in as that trust was formed, because we genuinely do want to help, then they would refer us to their friends, or they would vouch for us. So they would bring business when they came across it. And it became this this accident, not accidental, but it really worked. And so seeing that, and then laid out in your book, like, oh, we were accidentally doing those things. It really connects our two stories together quite a bit quite well.

Jason Marc Campbell
Yeah. And it's, it's very interesting, because I find a lot of clients I work with my find themselves becoming a martyr in some way. Because if you're an ethical businesses trying to do good in the world, you often find yourself in. And I don't like to use the word trap, because there's benefits to doing it, but perhaps in a trap, where you're helping a lot of people who might not be able to afford your products and services. And that can be kind of, you know, energy draining, but can also trigger these elements of guilt. If you feel like you want to help people that can't afford you, yet, you keep giving your time when you actually need to grow your business, you need to make sales, that's the lifeblood of the business. And I often reframe this, whenever people pick a target market, right? I often suggest like, Listen, you need to have people that, you know, you can solve the problem for right that you know, you can transform, I often add that element like make it, they're fun to work with, like, if you had a choice, you might as well choose people that are fun to work with. And the third element is that they can actually afford you. And often what I reinforce is that when you start actually being very clear on targeting the people that can afford you, it allows you to make sales that generates revenue. And as you generate revenue, you'll be able to spend more on marketing. And most of the marketing that you'll do, which is also going to be based on love is going to be a lot of education, and a lot of it will be free. And so the residual impact that happens from you serving truly the people that can afford your products and services, is you're growing your impact as a business and you get to create supporting material that eventually will help the people you did want to help but couldn't afford you. They will be residual beneficiaries of your marketing material, just like how you're creating a ton of resources now that people who may never be able to work with you, they get to benefit, you've taken the time to write an amazing book, which means now for under $20, or under $30, they get to learn a lot of the processes and principles around love as a business strategy, which, you know, knowing that this will eventually lead to some high end customers that you definitely do work with a lot of people who might not be able to afford it get to benefit from it. And this only happens if you know that you have a viable business that can grow that can scale that can make sales to the right people is you have a ripple effect to everyone else. And that ripple effect makes it so that more people that might not have been able to pay for the expensive support that you do, can pick up a book, have a transformation, become more abundant themselves, and start making more decisions from a place of love. And so the ripple effect is so beautiful. And so one thing that I capture in my book, as one of the first loves of selling is to fall in love with the impact of every sale that you make, and being clear on that ripple so that you're motivated to get up in the morning and to sell. Knowing that wow, look at that. Every sale that I make creates a better place for the client for the world. And even for myself, where I don't need to become a martyr. I can be abundant and become a role model. That when I do business the right way from a place of love I can be abundant, I can solve problems, and more people can do it that way. So we have less people taking advantage of others doing it the wrong way, where they're just being greedy. We need less of that. And we'll have less of that when we see more of that people doing it the right way, being successful and being the role models that we look up to.

Jeff Ma
Yeah, I love that. Can you help? High level? Because I think people should check out the book if they want the details, but high level, talk a little bit about how how to separate greed from sales. Like it's like for many I believe, especially listeners who, you know, uninitiated. It's really, at least, you know, in my mind tied together, I mean, the job itself is so tied to hit at least in today's culture with greeders, you know, satisfying quotas and shareholders and things like that.

Jason Marc Campbell
Yeah. It was very interesting. I had a conversation on another podcast where they asked, Can you be needy, and sell from love at the same time. And we thought about that question and kind of deliberated for a while and realized that your neediness will get in the way of you selling with love. Just like in a relationship, like if you've ever had someone come to you saying, like, Oh, my God, I totally want to be with you, I'll do anything to be with you. And they come from a very needy place, it comes to be a little repulsive, just like if anybody is selling from that place of being needy, or greedy, there's going to be an intimate sense of repulsion. But the problem that exists in sales, is that if you learn the process of selling, you can become extremely persuasive and powerful, and lead people towards taking certain actions. Because when you learn the language, you unlock ways of moving people that may or may not be in their best interest. And that actually comes based on the emotion that you sell from. And in my book, I actually break down this whole greed aspect, I call it the fear pride paradox. And this is where you're actually selling from a place of scarcity, you're doing it because you want to hit the quota, you need to do XYZ, so you can feel better about yourself. And then you can feel like, Oh, my God, look what I've done. And if you just learn the process of selling, you'll actually be effective. And a lot of companies like to hire young people that can just follow the rules, follow the process, and don't question it. Because they will be able to hit the quotas. But you will have to be, you know, it'll be a coin toss based on if you're selling something good or bad. Because at the end of the day, when you sell from that space, you actually do not take responsibility for the sales that you've made. In essence, you put that responsibility, it's like it's over there, I'm just doing what I'm doing to follow the script, follow the process and sell these people, they should know better, they'll figure out if it's good for them, but I'm going to persuade the hell out of them and not care about the outcome. And the problem is that in terms of selling, it can work. But on the individual basis, it's very interesting to see that most people who sell from the space, find themselves having a high correlation of mental health issues or addiction issues. Because you numb yourself to the reality of what's actually going on the energy exchange is still there. And then you do not want to face the lack of responsibility for the things that you've definitely been responsible for. So we try to numb ourselves from it. So you see, the stereotypical salesperson is often associated with alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, gambling, addiction, like all these vices seems to surround that culture, because we're trying not to face the fact that we're not taking responsibility. And so it often requires you to step back and check what the hell is going on. And I've been in this place in my early 20s. Like, I've sold it, I remember being like, oh my god, like, is this truly the best product for this person? Am I more in love, with my own success in selling it, than I am in the impact that this is going to make to this person's life? Do I truly understand the customer and am I offering him really what's best for him. And oftentimes, you have to open up the conversation around sales culture, which is a huge determinant of how you sell. And what I want to encourage people who read this book is to take a self audit for yourself about how you can make sure that you're surrounding yourself in a good sales culture, because you'll be fighting upstream if you are not. And what I'd encourage you to do, as a person who is going to learn to sell is going to learn that when you sell from a place of love, you will be highly effective, you will build long term relationships with clients that will actually buy over and over again, you will be able to find great sales position if you come from this place. But you'll be finding yourself maybe in a negative sales culture, you'll have to see that they will actually not appreciate the long term game that you're playing. So I'm hoping that we're seeing a trend of all the best salespeople have come to realization of this, leave the toxic sales cultures, which will create an incentive to actually change it.

Jeff Ma
I like it. What do you say to people who read your book and say, Yeah, I'm insane. Sales. I love what you're saying. But what I sell currently, like the thing that I currently sell, sucks are like, What do you say to people who feel trapped in that space?

Jason Marc Campbell
Yeah, you know, because the used car salesman often gets, you know, a kick. They're often being the butt of the jokes when you talk about sales and negative sales Association. And I was asked a question on the show recently, which was about like, what would you tell somebody who has to sell a really bad car, right? A couple of things that I'd unpacked here. One is, if you're selling a bad product, you have to ask yourself bad for who? Is it bad for you? Or is it bad for the person you're selling it to? Because that's different. You know, if I walk, you know, I always tell the example on the flip side, which is imagine you're actually a Lamborghini, salesperson, right? And you end up working as a salesperson for a Lamborghini dealership, and maybe you make 50,000 a year, okay. And then somebody walks in, you know, a very wealthy person who's dreamt of having a Lamborghini their whole life. And then they walk in, they're like, Hey, how much for this Lamborghini, and you think it's worth it? And you tell them? Well, you know what, I'll be quite honest with you, you can probably get the same features and horsepower from a BMW, which will cost like a fifth of the price, you shouldn't be buying a Lamborghini, it's ridiculously overpriced, just to look a little more fancy. And right, there is somebody saying, oh, yeah, this product is actually bad, because it's based on your perception and what you value, when the person who walked in was looking to create to buy something that would make them stand out, be unique, and was a childhood dream of success to mark that they said, if I make $20 million, I would buy myself a Lamborghini, you have no appreciation for the customer. And so that will be the first thing I would say around selling a bad product is understanding are you talking about from your perspective, or the customer's perspective? Because on the other side of that equation, if a family that's not making too much money needs to buy a used car, that's just $500. And that car, you see, you don't think is that good, but at the right price is perfect for this family? Who are you to judge about the value that it will provide for them? Right? Sure. But if you're seeing that you're actually knowing things about this car, that would diminish the value, and you feel that a culture is trying to suggest to you not to disclose it, then you need to put your own values in question. And here's one thing I would reassure for anybody who's in this kind of situation, is the world will reward people who operate from integrity, a lot more from the people who cut corners. And I wouldn't necessarily tell you to quit your job, which I think is a very easy out. I think there's conversations you could have saying to your managers, I'd love to actually keep my integrity to build a great reputation for this dealership. And so I'd love for us to be so transparent on everything we sell. And if this is not the culture we're looking to promote, then I definitely will be open to working for more ethical businesses. And this is truly what I'm hoping to create for anybody who reads the book is an external pressure or internal pressure for all companies to level up their level of integrity, so that the best people they know can only be attracted to a company who operates by such measures. And so this is what I'm hoping for.

Jeff Ma
I'm with you, man. I'm excited to like, go out there and keep you got me reenergized for the rest of this week already. That's exactly how I feel you. I love that I love that lane that you play in with. It's something that I don't think about enough. It's given me a lot to add to my kind of like thought process here. Because it makes a lot of sense what you say, yeah,

Jason Marc Campbell
it's not crazy. It's like treat people, right, sell them good stuff, do it at the best of your abilities, and see what happens as a ripple effect, and try to work for an industry that's actually doing some good for the world. And that will be subjective as well, you know, I once got offered a position to be a VP of Sales for a vape company. Right? And, and then for me, it was like, You know what, no, I don't want to do that. That's not what I want to promote. But then for someone who might have been a smoker for 30 years, switched to vaping, and finally got themselves off tobacco cigarettes and into vaping, which means they're coughing less, they feel better, and they're still getting their nicotine kick that they've been addicted to, then that person would say, I love to work for this company to help other people quit. And that might be their way of making the impact. And so you have to check in on your own values. And you can't put a blanket statement on what's good or bad. Some people might say, you know, oh, my god, oil and gas is terrible. Don't work for this company. It's like, well, the world is powered by Oil & Gas. And maybe you're trying to make sure that you're working for these types of industries. So they become more effective, more conscious on the way that they're extracting it so that we can still function as a society. It all depends on our perspective. So sure, I'd be very careful to blanket industries as good or bad.

Jeff Ma
Sure. I agree. Well, Mark, I wanted to make sure, Jason sorry. I wanted to make sure that we save enough time for you to talk a little bit. We've been talking about your book, but if there's anything else Do you want to share with the audience? And, you know, anything? Anything along that lines? You know, what do you got for us?

Jason Marc Campbell
Yeah. What I'd say is like for most of us who hate sales, it's very interesting in personal growth, we have this whole aspect of and I think in psychology is also the the field that they speak a lot about it, which is shadow material, right? Shadow material is kind of parts that we reject of ourselves, and we place it over there. And we say like, oh, yeah, that thing is bad. And we deny it within ourselves by being doubly harsh, and how we view it in others, okay. And we often play sales in this bucket. That's why a lot of people hate sales, they don't want to be associated with it, when really, you're creating a shadow material within your own cells that you might not want to acknowledge. And what I would love to suggest for people is to acknowledge that we are all salespeople, you are a salesperson, too. And just because you've seen negative examples of sales doesn't mean you need to be negative example of sales. So I would suggest and encourage people to integrate sales as a beautiful activity that is part of their life. Just like how accounting is sales is way more fun if you ask me, but hey, everybody has their preferences. But it's a beautiful thing where you get to shift people's perspective, you get to solve people's problems. And it becomes a beautiful thing when you do it your way. And so I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to have people reevaluate their love or hate relationship with sales. And it's so funny, because the first chapter of my book is about why you hate sales. And I talked about the history, the media, the parent tool, indoctrination, and there's so much that we can look at it from a different lens to realize, wow, sales is powerful, I can do it. And if I do it the right way, I will make the world a better place. And that is the shift that I want to create with the book that I've written, the programs that I do. And the reason I'm speaking to you now is to get more people to understand this perspective and apply it because we have problems on this earth. And we can solve it one sale at a time.

Jeff Ma
I love it. Jason, it's been a pleasure with the conversation we've had and just being able to connect at this level. Hope we get to chat again soon. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Jason Marc Campbell
It was my absolute pleasure. What what I'd love to do for your audience, though, is if anybody's interested in going deeper into this topic, if you go to sellingwithlove.com/laabs which which is the acronym for your book, I've actually made my first chapter of the book available for free. And I've even put together a meditation for people who want to connect with their buyer persona can just listen to this for eight minutes. And then at least whenever you have to get on a sales call, write an email, or just do prospecting, you'll actually be inspired by the fact that you're going to do this from a place of love and really inspire people to want to make a change to solve problems in their lives. And you'll be the one to do it. So if anybody would love to take advantage of that. It's just selling with sellingwithlove.com/laabs and they'll be able to get that for absolutely free.

Jeff Ma
I love it. Thank you for offering that up and hope our listeners take advantage of that. listeners. Thank you so much for joining us today and be sure to check out selling with love Jason Marc Campbell here and also of course if you haven't checked out our book, Love as a Business Strategy. Also available still. Look, he's got a copy if you're watching the video, he's holding it up. I'm holding I'm holding up his book. So there we go. I got a little, little notes. If you haven't already, please subscribe rate our podcast give us that feedback. We love it and tell a friend so with that, we'll see you next week in the next episode and Jason Have a great day