Irene Greaves  
We go to school and we learn math, reading science. Where do we learn to love? This is the question we posed at the beginning of every one of our sessions. Where did where did you learn to love?

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to Love as a Business Strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We are here to talk about business, but we want to tackle those topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every single successful business. As always, I'm your host, Jeff Ma. It's wonderful to be here. And I'm just looking forward to today's conversation because I have two for the price of one today, two guests, and they're both from LoveScaping and we'll get into what that is what that's all about. As you've already read the title. I'm sure you're here because you're curious what love scaping is. But let me introduce introduce my guests. First. First we have Irene. I've been working with her on this name before the recording for a very long time. I'm still butchering it, but it's Irene Greaves, and she's a passionate educator and Lovescaper. She has a master's in education from the University of Pennsylvania and believes learning to practice love and action should be the most important purpose of education. She is the author, founder and director of Lovescaping, her philosophy of life. And pedagogy is that am I even saying that right? of Love based on her global life experience turned educational framework to teach and cultivate the 15 pillars of love in action. I also have Debbie Landau. Debbie's a bachelor's in psychology and a master's in business administration. She has been in education for 23 years. Most of that time as an administrator when she started teaching, she realized that we focus too much on testing and content and not building the child. Throughout her career she always addressed our children's socio-emotional needs, and nothing compares with the experience she had with Lovescaping, how to teach love and action is what she's been focused on. And after implementing the first ever school wide model of landscaping at her middle school, she decided to retire and join Lovescaping's mission to lovescape the world. All right. So all of that out of the way. Welcome to the show. I really, I keep saying Irene because the word Irene has written in front of me, Irene and Debbie, how are you?

Irene Greaves  
Hi, Jeff, thank you so much for having us. It's such a pleasure to be with you today.

Jeff Ma  
Welcome, welcome. And

Debbie Landau  
that was doing great. Thank you for having us.

Jeff Ma  
Awesome. So forgive me for the intro. And the names that I will mess up throughout the rest of the show. But that's not important. Right now. We're here to talk about the two of you. And of course Lovecaping. And Irene, let me let me start with you. And I'm just curious. Can you give a little bit of the the summary of the story of the journey that brought you to your passion today?

Irene Greaves  
Yes, absolutely. So, love. scaping is the work of my life. It's actually my philosophy of life, based on my lived experience. So I'm originally from Venezuela. And growing up in Venezuela, I really learned the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion in a very close to home way because my oldest sister is a special needs child. And so growing up with her because she wasn't considered, quote unquote, normal. She was denied access entry or participation into schools into activities that, you know, I could join. And my mother fought so hard for my sister to be included and to join our schools. And we would routinely go to schools and they would shut their doors until we found one that with open arms embraced us and when my sister graduated high school, she won the Best Friend award on behalf of her classmates. And to this day, they share how going to school with her, changed their lives, and definitely my sister's. So what I learned from these early experiences growing up in Venezuela with my sister is that diversity, equity and inclusion are not about allowing entry to someone different into a group, you know, as in Oh, I'm doing you a favor. It's about realizing that every human being is unique and different. And we all become enriched when we embrace one another. So I took those seeds that were planted in my heart from an early age, and in the last 17 years, I left Venezuela when I turned 18, and I've had the great privilege and opportunity to live, study, work and volunteer around the world. So I've lived in Africa, in Asia and Europe and in Central America, always working in education and community development. And what I learned from those experiences is that love transcends all differences. And that love is not a feeling love is an action. And so when I came to the US to get my master's in education, I had my epiphany. I looked at all of those life experiences to see what allowed us to love one another. What does love as an action consist of, and that's how Lovescaping came about this philosophy of life based on the 15 pillars, the 15 ingredient that make love possible that I noticed that they weren't present across all of these diverse experiences. They are values, and I believe that we can teach them and learn them in an intentional way. And so the 15 pillars of Lovescaping are humility, empathy, respect, communication, care, compassion, patience, honesty, vulnerability, trust, solidarity, liberation, gratitude, forgiveness, and hope. And so lovescaping is first and foremost a way of life based on embodying these 15 pillars.

Jeff Ma  
Wow. Amazing. I think I feel like I had so many more questions to build off of that before. I'm trying to write them down as you went through. It's trying to keep up with 15 Amazing things I wish I had, I could just do an episode each one of those words. So that's amazing. And before I jump over that, Debbie, I want to make sure I also hear your story. Where did your passion come from? What was the road that brought you here today.

Debbie Landau  
So I'm also from Caracas, Venezuela. And but we met here in the States. And like I said, like I said before, I've been 23 years in education. But in all the 23 years, I feel there was something lacking in our educational system. And I tried to bring it to the schools, you know, character education, different programs that that they're out there, in try to implement it at our schools. And I, when I met Irene, who came to my school three years ago, and we tried it with a small group of seventh grade girls. And I was just, I mean, I could not believe how effective and how important this work is. And I say that's it. That's what I've been missing. I have some of the components, about making sure that kids have a place every day where they're learning in values, I did not have the right curriculum, I guess. And so when I met Irene, and we decided to actually take that to our teachers, it's so important that our teachers go through the process of the 15 pillars. And that's when I just said, this is a this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. And so that's how I joined Irene.

Jeff Ma  
That's amazing. So to clarify for the audience, and to understand love scaping better. Is this a you consider it a curriculum? Is it a guideline, a framework? And is it it is the audience for children or everyone or certain age group? What can you help give me some shape to what Lovescaping is?

Irene Greaves  
So first, as I said, it's a way of life number one, it's a philosophy of living so it is for everyone. And it's also an educational system and framework. And so we believe as an organization, that learning to love learning to practice love as an action should be a core component of our educational systems. And like Debbie said, this is we need to start with the adults we need to lovescape our teachers lovescape parents and lovescape our children from the moment they enter school, right? We go to school, and we learn math, reading science, where do we learn to love? This is the question we pose at the beginning of every one of our sessions, where do Where did you learn to love and pose and think about that question, because we often assume we don't we rarely ask this question number one, and we assume that we're going to learn to love at home, or that just by virtue of being alive and being born into the world that somehow you're going to absorb what love is by osmosis. And we know that that's not true. And not every home is a love loving home. But we can guarantee as a society that every school is is a loving community, a loving environment, a loving culture, where everybody is learning to practice and embody these 15 pillars that will really heal our humanity. Like you said, it's about returning humanity to the, you know, to the workplace to the world. And we do that we believe by intentionally and purposefully, dedicating a time, like Debbie said, we need to dedicate time and resources to teaching. How do I embody humility? How do I practice empathy? How do I communicate in an assertive way, in a non violent way? Right? How do I practice solidarity? How do I become compassionate, these values that are so important, but we have failed, in our opinion, to really teach them intentionally. And so our mission is to bring lovescaping as a core component of schooling, and to also, you know, lovescape the world. So it's really for everybody, anybody who's listening to this podcast, you can really reflect on your life experience and think, how do I, how do I embody and practice love and action every day of my life with my spouse, with my colleagues, with my, with my neighbors, with strangers, and so it's really, again, this this way of life.

Debbie Landau  
Just like to also add that all the adults that have been through Irene so many that I know, because they were my teachers, it changed her life. It wasn't about the school, it wasn't about it is really, they they talked how it changed their lives. And I'll tell you that it changed my life. And the reason is because of the most of one of the most important words in it. And it's a framework is intentionality. And it's about that we can, we can unlearn. And relearn, that doesn't mean that because we do things one way, we have to keep doing it that way. And that as a principal, that was hard, because I would tell the teachers, hey, how do you know, let's talk to the kids in a better way. Before Landscaping came in? They would say, Oh, come on, Debbie. I was taught like that, and look at me, I'm okay. And so it is really about unlearning. And learning again, with  15 pillars.

Jeff Ma  
I love it, obviously, very much in line with everything that I believe in. But what I really love is how early you're, you're targeting how you're, you're starting in a place that is so foundational, that you know, like, I, in my line of work, I'm talking about this with fully grown adults. And it almost feels like the more logical place to start, where people are still moldable and spongy, and and seeking that love in their life and how that can eventually form adults that our are healthier in that context. It sounds incredible. And, Debbie, I'll ask you, it sounds like your mission, to bring this to schools and make this I mean, what an amazing world it would be if this was just a standard curriculum. But it sounds like there's a lot of barriers to that. What having come from schooling yourself? What's the approach going to be like? How are you going to get this curriculum out? And past all the the yellow tape that's going to block it from reaching these kids?

Debbie Landau  
Well, there's a couple of ways. You know, I think that that after COVID, and after all the the horrible things that have been happening in the couple, you know, last year, and I think people are ready, I know principals want to do this. It's not a matter of they don't believe in it. They believe in it. So I think that the number one buy already, we have 18 schools in in the Houston area where we're actually implemented school wide in eight schools, which will gather data and when people will be able to talk about it. That's one way that we start convincing other people. And then you know, the barriers he says it's money as in everything. It's so one of our missions is to start finding businesses who believe in landscaping, and will sponsor a school. I'm not asking for me or, but they will sponsor a school in their community. And so those are the the two barriers or honestly, the barrier that I see the most is much because most schools feel that they have to spend their money in increasing their scores. Everything is about scores. And we believe in an eye that if we love the world, every single, including those scores will be okay.

Jeff Ma  
And I agree 100% I guess diving into the, the curriculum, if you will, or the philosophy and all that these 15 pillars, I mean, they're pretty, they're pretty clearly well thought through how did you form this list? And kind of, can you walk through a little bit of what, what kind of what they what they make up all together and how they how they came to be?

Irene Greaves  
Sure. So, you know, as I was saying, at the beginning, when I came to the US to get my master's in education, by the end of it, I realized I had this epiphany that love is the cynic one on the essential condition of our humanity. Right, and that education needs to we need to use education to to nurture and teach the heart, and what better place to learn love than at schools. And so as I looked at, I did, it was it was a really a research project of my lived experience. As I said, I looked at the ingredients that were common across, when I lived in Mozambique, when I lived in China, I was a teacher, I worked in community development, I worked in international development, I looked at all of the letters and documents and experiences that we had had together with former colleagues, with students with community members. And I noticed that there were all these similarities right across all these different places, like when they described what was so effective about our time together, about our classes, about our spaces where we came in, to share knowledge. And that's how the 15 pillars came about. It wasn't just this, you know, list that, oh, they all sound great. And they they sound nice together, it actually they surfaced from all of these experiences, people were saying, you know, there was empathy, there was solidarity, we were humble, we were compassionate, you know, we shared our suffering, we opened our hearts, we were vulnerable. And so that's how they came about. And, and really, when when we teach them, we follow a method, we are very intentional about teaching these, they we like to show them in the shape of a circle. Because circles have a very special significance for us that there are symbols of equality and continuity, and infinity and community and togetherness. And so we like to show all the pillars in a circle, and they're all equally important. But there is an order. And we start with humility, because Humility is the openness to the practice of the rest of the pillars, when I am humble. And I recognize that I could have been a completely different person and had completely different beliefs had I been born in a different part of the world. For instance, when I recognize that there is no absolute truth with capital T, when I recognize that when I know better, I can do better in the words of Maya Angelou. Right. I am humble. And when I am humble, humility removes prejudice. Because I understand that every human being has a frame of reference, a unique frame through which we see and understand the world, it doesn't mean that mine is better or worse than yours, it's just different. And when we really understand that, and live with that knowledge, acknowledgement, then we can practice empathy or next pillar, there is no empathy without humility, because if I believe that my way is the right way, and my frame is right, and yours is wrong, or mine is better than yours, I am never going to put myself in your shoes and try to understand how things might look from your experience. So in that in that way, and then there and then there's, they follow respect communication. So there is a method to teaching them they build on each other, like these building blocks, but they form a puzzle together.

Jeff Ma  
I love that. And, you know, I'm definitely going to be digging further into this after this conversation, because there's so much that I know I can learn from it. But I have a question around, you know, we work in similar spaces. Again, I'm working in the workplace with adults and you're working with everybody but also focused on teaching this to children and things but one of the, one of the main, I guess, like challenges around working in this space is that it begins with introspection and a mindset. This type of work we do is not of the logical mind all the time it can, it can be made logical but at the at the In the day, it is an introspective self awareness journey. And as hard as that is for adults to do in my experience, I'm curious, I guess what, how does that? How is that different with children? Like how, how when you work in schools and when you work with younger adults or small children? Is that? Is that as much of a challenge? Is it easier is it harder, and really I'm getting at is you say you start with with, you start with that humility, which I would argue is one of the harder things for some ingrained adults to, to, to acquire. And it's, and it's never as simple as saying, Here's what humility means. And here's what it looks like. And here's a video that shows humility. Like, you have to get people to recognize their own lack of humility in their own errors in their ways. And that's not nobody want not a lot of people want to hear that or see that side themselves. Not everybody wants to hold that mirror up. So I guess my question is drifting a little bit. It's now like a three part question. But really, I'm wondering, number one, how does this How does that journey look like for kids? Easier, harder, different? And also, how do you teach humility at the end of day, how, besides defining it like, what is the way to get people to actually recognize their own elements in this in these pillars?

Debbie Landau  
So I'm going to say that, that it depends on the age. So I'm going to start with pre K, we start with pre K, the younger, the easier, once it gets to middle school, oh, boy, it gets a little bit more difficult. And then when we get to high school, and Edina can talk more about high school, you know, people have their already ingrained concepts of, of this competition of I want to be better than you, it's, it's how we, you know, everything we do, it's about competition, we want to be the best. I mean, we ingrained that from the minute they start talking about college, you need to race in the top, you need to be in the top and to be in the top, or you have to do step on others. And, and so without saying that is what we're saying to kids. And so of course, as we get older, then, you know, we're set on our on our on our mindset, and it's more difficult to do a mind shift or a really a heartshift. But but it is possible. So again, much easier, starting very young. And that's why we focus this year, only pre K through eighth grade, because that is where we can change our kids mindsets and teach the 15 pillars and we have a battle half more.

Irene Greaves  
Absolutely. And to add to that, you know, we we are really one of our aims and goals is to really bring bring the curriculum to life and to go above and beyond just like what you said, Jeff, just like, Oh, here's the definition. There's a lot of like character education programs out there, right. And they Oh, this is the character trait of the month respect, and this is what respect is, and but again, there's not that intentional, dedicated time to teaching and learning and talking about it and reinforcing it. And we believe again, repetition is key. That's why we believe this should be a class in every, every grade level from pre K from the moment you enter the school to 12th grade, the same way we have math all throughout, right? It's just developmentally appropriate. It goes it changes in, in complexity, but it's the same concepts, right? So how do we make it accessible? And how do we make it meaningful and relevant to the students lives? And so really, the goal is that it becomes such a part of the culture of the school that there's not only this dedicated time, every day, they have Lovescaping class, the schools that are doing at school wide, have 30 minutes of fluff scaping class every day in the morning. So when you have that level of consistency, right, and then it becomes part of how teachers and administrators and parents and even kids among themselves, they start noticing and calling each other you know out and in when it's like hey that wasn't humble you know when a kid it when a kid admits a mistake and says apologizes the teacher says what an example of humility you really exemplify humility there. And that is the goal that it becomes this language, this language of love and action that everybody you know, we're reinforcing not only during love skipping class, but also throughout the the day. So if you're reading a novel, right? How did this character exemplify empathy? How is this an example in history, class of solidarity of people coming together to achieve this goal of caring about the well being of your fellow human, that a goal is for this to really be embedded and infused everywhere else after targeting it right in our in a very consistent way. So both of those, really, and the results are extraordinary when you see little children really stepping into the shoes of others, like in a literal way to practice empathy. When we bring in, you know, our frame of reference activity for humility. It's very powerful people have epiphanies, you know, because they are posed with questions that they have never maybe thought about before. So it's, it's, we try to make it as engaging as possible. There's a lot of roleplay, there's a lot of, you know, writing and reading and, and just like discussions and discussions, and, and it's about bringing that humanity piece like, how does your experience let me step into your shoes, let me realize that I'm not the only one struggling with this. And so the whole system, the whole framework really lends itself to building those authentic connections. 

Debbie Landau  
You know, our big goal, or really, our big, big goal is that the Department of Education of the United States of America says, This must be a class just like reading, writing, in order to grant and that's our big goal. You know, you hear a lot about transforming education and doing something about education. And this is transformation. This is innovative. And it's needed without, you know, we talked about, you know, I was principal and theory, Tough Schools, where our teachers have to spend so much time dealing with discipline, dealing with kids not showing empathy, not being humble, having no idea how to communicate, they had no idea when I used to bring my kids in front of me, I would have them talk to each other, get to know each other, understand that they coming from a different home, but with very similar backgrounds. And just, but that takes time. So what we need is educators who would have the courage to say, let's do it differently, because doing the same thing over and over is the definition of insanity.

Jeff Ma  
And, you know, this is something that's hitting really home for me, because, you know, there's there's a lot that when you work with adults, you wish people would understand more readily and easily. And there's this element of, of not understanding how to break through with some folks. It's so ingrained in us. You mentioned the sense of competition before, but it's almost like so many of your pillars are things that kids already inherently know, in some senses. And they've only been shown otherwise, as they've grown up that, that they should be, you know, not vulnerable and guard themselves and not be, you know, it's no humility and things like that. And so it this is so exciting. And I love the way that you guys have positioned it and made it. The dream is incredible. I think the mission to get this into schools is incredible. While I'm waiting for that, as a parent, myself have young children, is there a way that I can access this material or gain something or have something to use at home or with my community? Is there anything that I can get from love scaping right now?

Irene Greaves  
Absolutely. So we encourage everybody to start with my book to read the book, which is kind of the foundational elements that explains the 15 pillars. So that's a great way to start. And we do have, we have a wonderful guidebook for parents to practice Lovecaping at home that we are right now. It's available for the schools that are participating in Lovescaping, but we are about to make it available for parents such as yourself who want to have a tool that they can use at home, how do I practice is at home with my children. So definitely, you know, visit our website, read the book. And that's a great start. We want to make lovescaping available to people such as yourself, who are who are not, you know, in the schools that we're serving now. So the best way is just to stay in touch with our social media and just and follow us and support us.

Debbie Landau  
And also by actually, once you read it and you're implemented in your home, go to your principal and say, Hey, we need to bring Lovescaping PTAs can fund it, you know, there's so many ways that they can do The businesses can fund it. You know, I know schools sometimes don't have enough funding, but coming from parents is even stronger, because he the you know, we principle related to our parents, and so going to our principals and saying, please bring love states into our school.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah. And as an endorsement just from me in learning and hearing about this, I work with, you know, businesses of all different sizes, where, you know, critical decisions and different ups and downs of all the hectic business world are involved. And, and the science. And this research has shown that elements such as your 15 pillars, such as the six pillars that we talked about in love as a business strategy, are elements that proved to be successful in business, they are what lead to actually ultimate life success. So what I'm hearing is teaching kids these skills earlier is setting them up for the right type of success in the future. And one of the big, big things that, that we always hear when we talk to folks that are skeptics are really not not for this type of change, is that these all sound like soft skills. And we always push back, I always say these are soft skills, these are critical skills. And I hear that you have 15 critical skills as well, here with lovescaping that I'm really excited to dive into, I'm definitely going to use the resource and check, check out the book. And also, you know, my wife is very active in the PTA. So we're going to see what we can do over here. But I hope the audience also, you know, feels the energy you folks are bringing across love the passionate love the mission. I'm all in on lovescaping, this is incredible. And I think that I really, really look forward to, you know, maybe not in our generation, but maybe one day, this, this being something that at the core, really of what it means to like, grow, learn and grow and become an adult, including all this. So thank you, both of you for taking the time today and sharing this incredible journey and story. And yeah, it's really appreciate both of you for being here today.

Irene Greaves  
Thank you, Jeff, this was such a refreshing conversation.

Debbie Landau  
Thank you very much for having us.

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely, and best of luck. And, you know, I really hope that I can get you back on the show one day to talk about, you know, all the progress because I'm definitely rooting for you. And I know that this is something that's going to make a big difference. So I feel strongly about that.

Debbie Landau  
Yes. And if I can do one more pitch out there to businesses, that you know, we a lot of schools and businesses are saying kids are not prepared. This is the way to help our community get prepared. So get involved, contact us in sponsor school.

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely. And thank you to the listeners of the show. Thank you for sticking with us all this time. Every week. We're here for you. So please give us your feedback. Let us know what you think and check out our book as well check out both books check out Lovescaping, check out Love as a Business Strategy. The book has love in it. And I think it's yellow is yours kind of yellow to right.

Irene Greaves  
 It's yellow. 

Jeff Ma  
It's yellow, and it's got love in the in the title please check it out. And we appreciate all the support. Thanks once again to Lovescaping for being here and we will see everybody next time