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Episode 169:
169. Love as a Listening Strategy with Noah Asher
Noah’s story is filled with highs and even more lows. He joins the podcast to share his journey, personal and business - and offers his perspective on what it means to truly listen to others.
Speakers
Feel the love! We aren't experts - we're practitioners. With a passion that's a mix of equal parts strategy and love, we explore the human (and fun) side of work and business every week together.
Jeff Ma
Host, Director at Softway
Noah Asher
Award-winning Author & Business owner
Transcript
Hide TranscriptNoah Asher 0:00
If you want your employees to value your business, you need to value your employees.
Jeff Ma 0:11
Hello and welcome to love as a business strategy a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff MA and as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories from real people about real business and real life. My real life guest today is Noah Asher. And Noah is an award winning author and business owner, and he has a new book called Chaos overcoming the overwhelming, which is helping people find purpose in the pain in their past. And I invited Noah here today to have a conversation about something that I think is not talked about enough, and definitely not enough as a topic on this show. Want to talk about listening, and I think it's such an important topic that I talk about regularly outside the show, and I'm kind of appalled that we haven't hit it here yet. So I'm super excited to welcome Noah Asher to the show. Noah, how are you doing?
Noah Asher 1:20
I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Jeff Ma 1:23
Awesome. Noah, I I'd love to kick things off just with a little bit of a like a background, I guess. But really, I like to center the background around passion. What's your passion and what's the story, or what's the road that brought you to that passion?
Noah Asher 1:39
Yeah, years ago, I found myself in a dark, dark place, and tried taking my own life. And since coming out of that chaos and coming out of that sort of time of my life, I just realized how important it is to cherish each and every moment, but also let people know that they are loved, let people know that they are seen, let them know that they are heard. And for me, my my mantra is always, I want to be the brightest of lights for people in their darkest of pits, simply because I know how important that is, and so that's what my book's about, and that's really what my life is about.
Jeff Ma 2:23
Well, so coming from kind of the lowest of lows and back, what? What really made the difference for you, personally, in that story, like in that journey, what? What turned the corner?
Noah Asher 2:38
It really, there was a my mindset shift that I had, and it really was because of my faith. I realized I was sitting around kind of like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh, just that Woe is me. You know, there's a cloud always over me, that sort of mindset. And what I did was I stopped saying, God, why me? And I started saying, God, use me, and that shift in my personal life was everything for me. That's pretty much when the light bulb came on and go, I'm not gonna have a pity party, because that's not really a party at all. That's no fun. And get out of that mindset and really start to see how there is purpose and all of the pain that I've been through, and how I can help others.
Jeff Ma 3:26
Amazing. So bringing this around to the business side of the equation, talk a little bit about how that now kind of, I guess, manifests in work, business leadership, etc.
Noah Asher 3:38
Yeah, I worked for a popular hotel chain for a while, and I started at front desk. Within three weeks, they made me the general manager, and then I moved into Director of Operations. And I'm super thankful for the time I had with the the hotel chain. And I wanted to venture out and do my own business. And by doing that, it opened up allowing me to be on podcasts like this, for example, open up my time to connect on different levels while still running a business, and, you know, making money and and living life. But ultimately, by doing my own business, we started doing these undercover assessments, which is similar to secret shopper, and we have been very successful doing that. And now that we have published this book, and it's been very well accepted in the in the Christian kind of non fiction world that now we are helping other authors market their books, promote their books, and get their message out there. I like to put it this way is that I want us to help you build your platform, so all you have to do is stand on it and share your message and it's it's so much fun, it's so rewarding. And that's one thing I learned. I. Uh, about opening my own business and starting my own business was that I am my own boss. I can do whatever I want, and that means I have the opportunity to make my work, um, as meaningful as I want it to be.
Jeff Ma 5:14
So talk a little bit about this secret shopper concept. Can you talk, dive into how that, how that works. Is that still? What is that still what the business does today? Yeah,
Noah Asher 5:25
we still do those that's kind of like our bread and butter when it comes to making money. Um, what we do is we go in, of course, the a manager or an owner of typically it's restaurants. Sometimes it's like a retail sort of business, but typically restaurants, they hire us to go in. We go in undercover. A lot of times, I sit down with the owner or manager ahead of time and say and ask specific questions like, What are you seeing as a common trend already, that maybe you told your staff to do such and such. But then you want to know if they are or not. I try to get a feel for those sorts of things. If they have specific brand standards, like, if I walk in, should they be saying some catch phrase when I walk in the door? I need to know those things, to know if they're actually doing it when I walk in. To be receptive to those, then I don't let the owner or the manager know when I'm coming in or when someone from my team is going in, simply to keep it as unbiased as possible, I want to keep the leadership team even on their toes. But I do, I do typically ask the owner or the manager if they know a few days that they're going to be off. Because to me, that's when you get the real temperature of how things are operating. Is when the manager or the leader is not on site. And that's simply a lot of those things are what I learned from the hotel industry, because hotel industry is, you know, 24/7 and I can't be there all the times that the doors are open, but what I would have to do is sometimes schedule myself to come in at four in the morning to watch the night auditor and see if they're doing what they're supposed to do if they're in uniform. Gosh, you'd be blown away. I've walked in one time and one of my night auditors was wearing, like, pajamas. I was like, What are you doing? And it's just that, you know, because they thought they would never run into me, and so they thought they could get away with it. And so that's very, very crucial, just for any listener who is in leadership, sometimes it's good to shift your schedule without telling anyone and kind of see what's going on. And you know, that's that's a good way to see the temperature of your business. But long story short, we do those sorts of assessments. And then from start to finish, I time everything out, from when they came to seat me, when they took my order, what they said, how they're dressed, and so on. And then I create this assessment, we get back with the leadership team at a later date. We go over the assessment, and then sometimes they actually hire us for a 90 day, sometimes all the way to six month period, to come in and work with our team on training them, on those things that we found that was just slacking
Jeff Ma 8:23
in your experience. In doing this, is there anything that you notice, obviously, focused on the hospitality, restaurant or service industry, like, but is there anything you notice that made for better teams in general, like, when it comes to obviously, they usually care about customer service and things like that. But you know, our kind of mantra here on the show and in the book is that you know all those things are going to start with a culture, going to start with some sort of work place, culture led by the leader, or instilled by the organization. What have you noticed along those lines, like, what? What have you seen that that stands out to you, that that's been worked, that's worked from a culture perspective, coming in as this third party auditor, yeah, what have you seen?
Noah Asher 9:09
I think honestly, from the very beginning, I feel like from that welcome, with that greeting when you walk in, I personally feel as if I can tell whether or not the leader is passionate about having their team on the same level, on the same on board with what they're doing and what their vision is based on how the employee greets me when I walk in
Jeff Ma 9:36
just the first five seconds. Yes, you walk in and you already get a feel for the the leaders right passion,
Noah Asher 9:43
simply because you know if, if they're supposed to greet you when you walk in, and they're not, and they just are standing there on their phone, and you can just sense that they don't care about their their role. Personally, I feel like, okay, well that tells me at the top they're not pushing for them. Sorts of things. And you know, if you want to value your if you want your employees to value your business, you need to value your employees. And that's where it begins.
Jeff Ma 10:15
Awesome. So I know our topic is, is around listening. I want to invite you today because I wanted your take on the importance of listening. I know mainly because, number one, you as a secret shopper have been coming in and listening on behalf of these companies and seeing and hearing what's going on around but also you as a business owner, I know you have, you have weight in, in your leadership, in the way you run your business, in the importance of listening to employees and to what's going on. So can you, can you share your perspective around listening and as it pertains to like your culture, and how it pertains to how, you know, how people show up to work.
Noah Asher 11:03
Yeah, can you repeat that I wasn't listening, but no, it's very listening when you and I discuss that topic. I love that we get to have this conversation. Because, as I mentioned earlier, people, no matter where they come from, where they live. Everyone wants to be seen and everyone wants to be heard. I mean, just look at social media the way it is, and everyone's fighting to have a voice, and even in the comments, you know, it's like, let's see what we can say. Let's see who's gonna pay attention to us. And in leadership, it's, it takes that moment, and it doesn't even take long to walk in. I've walked into my office plenty of times and gone, Hey guys, let's blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and just go ahead and start the day. But then I realized, Wait, hold on. Hey guys, how are you, you know, stopping that moment and just going, wait, wait, you know, rewind for a moment. Let's pause. Let's have a conversation first, because it goes back to, if I value them, they're going to value what I'm doing and what our product is and what our goal is. The Passion begins with the leader, and I think, through stopping and letting your employees feel as if they are seen and they are heard, oh, that's gold. That's that's where the money is. You You cannot whether you're a business owner or just a leader or in some sort of management role where you oversee employees. You want to make your job easier, you don't have to be there every second of every day. And so if you surround yourself with people who you value them, they're going to value the products, but they're also going to value when your time away from the office is there, they're not going to be blowing up your phone. They're going to feel empowered. They're going to do what they need to do to run the business, because they're going to want you to have your time away. And it all to me personally, it starts with listening. I learned this early on in the hotel industry. You know, you have all of these different departments, from housekeeping to front desk to the food and beverage part. And there'd be many times where listening comes in many different forms. One is stopping and saying, you know, Hey, how are you? And truly listening to how they are, not just the whole, I'm good, you're good. All right, cool, you know, actually learning and listening to them. But then it also matters when it comes to listening. In regards to conflict, I would have housekeepers come to me and complain about another housekeeper complain about front desk. And I'm like, I don't want to make if this is how you feel, I cannot change that. You know, the whole, the whole idiom where it goes perception is reality, and it may not be full reality, but it's at least their reality. And so I need to stop and go, Okay, if they're bringing this to me, they're hurt. They feel a certain way about this topic, and this is why there's conflict. So I'm going to stop what I'm doing, let them know that I value their time and I value what they're saying to me, and then go, All right, well, let's bring the other person into the room. And now not only am I listening, but I'm also listening to the other side of things, and we're all three having a conversation, open communication, where we can fix the problem. And that's to me, that's the goal. That's the best advice I can give anyone when it comes to listening to that it matters, especially when conflict arises, that you can stop and listen.
Jeff Ma 14:46
That's such good advice for me personally, because I know that I've caught myself instinctively whenever someone brings a problem, especially around conflict, is I immediately apply my own perspective to it, and I make some determination. Assumptions or assumptions, especially as a leader like I've, I think I've been kind of raised to, like, have the answer or solution or come up with the the correct approach or solution right away. And so I'll kind of size it up, and I'll judge it right away, and I'll kind of either like, impose that solution or minimize how they're feeling about it in the moment. Because I'll just kind of, I'll just rationalize it out so like, Oh, you have this problem. Oh, you're overreacting. It's just, it's just nice, and that's my that's my go to because in my mind, I'm solving the problem my mind, I'm I'm putting it to rest. And I think that that advice you just gave us is key for me to kind of keep in mind, because that perception doesn't change, or that reality for the business change, and if just by minimizing it, I may not be fixing the real issue at hand. Yeah,
Noah Asher 15:51
and honestly, there's times where maybe someone else in leadership, like one of my managers, or someone has already told me, hey, this person is about to come to you and complain. Gosh, even customers have done that where I've, like, already heard from the employee. Oh, this, this customer is upset. For example, they're about to come down and, you know, yell at you. The the number one thing it goes back to listening is to not go, like, to cut them off and go, Okay, we already know what you're going to say. No, let them speak. Let them voice their their feelings out there. That is very, very, very important, because sometimes, after they just unleash their their thought on it, or their feeling on it, a lot of times they are already begin feeling better that they just had an opportunity, you know, a lending ear. And so don't. Another good advice is just don't cut them off and go, Oh, I already know what you're gonna tell me, No, let them just voice it, because half the time after they voice it, they've already calmed way down, and now you can have a genuine conversation about it.
Jeff Ma 17:06
That brings me to, like, curiosity around, what do you do with what do you do after listening? Sometimes, because I've worked with a number of groups, companies like and executives and teams where, like, you come in and like again, when you're just kind of talking to them, to the side, or individuals, you get that exact thing you just described, which is, they're like, already, they've already heard it all. You know? They they're like, oh, this person is not going to like this. This person really wants this, to change this like, so they have all this all sized up and so that they've heard, but I'm not sure that they've listened a lot of times I asked them, What have you done about it? Like, if you know that they're unhappy about this, or if you know that they complain about this, what's been done? And a lot of times it comes back, like, Well, we haven't really, like, sat down and addressed that issue directly. We just know that sentiment because of the constant, you know, complaints or the gripes, yeah, and to them, it's just the horn is a thorn in the side, because they're just like, they won't shut up about it. So, like, I guess, what? What do you say to, like, to that, the person in that position, or, like, what's, what's the right steps to take if you're hearing them when you need to move to listening and taking action, like, where should you be going? Yeah,
Noah Asher 18:23
so for me, um, it goes back to the hotel experience I had. We had a model we we use, and I use it in my personal life. I use it in my business. I and I recommend it for anyone and everyone the sound of my voice, but it's the Learn model, and it's listen and then you empathize. It's okay to listen and then kind of say, Okay, I know where you're coming from, or I hear where you're coming from. I see how that would make you upset, and even repeat back some of what they said, so they know for sure that it's more than just hearing. Is actually listening, as you said, empathize with them. And then here's, here's the word that none of us want to use today, but it's apologize. We have to stop and we have to apologize and say, I'm sorry that this happened, and not say, Oh, I'm sorry you feel that way. That's a cop out, right? We don't, we don't want to hear that. We want to hear I'm sorry that this happened. And now you move into the the fourth letter, which is rectify and resolve the issue. And then fourth is notify, for example, if and because I'm in a leadership role, if I do, if I listen, I empathize, I apologize, I rectify, and then to notify, I'm going to sit down with my staff and go, Okay, hey guys, we dropped the ball. How do we not do that again? I love football, so I'll use that example. But you know, in the middle of the game, if one of your players fumbles the ball, you don't stop the game and go, hey coach, this person fumbled. Get on to them. No, you pick it up. You run it you. Score it and into the end zone after the game, that's when you sit down, you go over the footage, you sit down with the team and go, Hey, I'm glad we scored, but we dropped the ball. How do we not do that again? And resolve it behind the scenes after the fact as well. So not only are you making that one employee or that one customer satisfied now you're making it where we have implementation that it doesn't happen any longer. You know hearing versus listening, in my opinion, is hearing is getting on that hamster wheel and just running, running, running and exerting, exerting, exerting, but never going anywhere. And for when it comes to listening that's actually getting outside and going, Okay, let's, let's make moves. Let's, we've heard what's going on now we're not just going to hear it. We're going to listen and we're going to follow through with whatever is truly the issue.
Jeff Ma 20:59
I love it. I want to save room and shift gears, because I also want to talk about your book. I want to talk about chaos, overcoming the overwhelming. And it may not, it may or may not, have connections to listening, but I wanted to make sure we touched on it, because I think it's such a powerful part of your your journey as well. You talk a little bit about the book and talk a little bit about the the entire concept of this kind of pain in in kind of past and overcoming those those things, yeah,
Noah Asher 21:31
for the listener, if you ever see the cover is it's an umbrella, and it has words raining down upon the umbrella. And I feel like a lot of times when we're in the midst of our own chaos, we feel like it's a storm and it's just consuming us. And the words that I put are very specific because I wanted people to understand that chaos comes in many different forms. For someone listening to this, it may be job loss or bankruptcy or it may be divorce or the loss of a loved one or illness, and the list is endless, but what we talk about in the book is, while our chaos may look different there, we can still all overcome and so it is a self help sort of book, but it does have Christian undertones throughout it. So I like that to be known, because I don't want to hide that fact. So if that's not your your cup of tea. I don't want to try to trick you into buying it. I want to just be upfront about it, but we do discuss it. And so for me, my faith played such a big role in going from pain to purpose, and so that's why I discuss it. But bottom line is, while our chaos may look different, we can all overcome and even though there is purpose in our pain, I don't believe our pain was ever our purpose. There's more to our life, and I want to make sure people know that, and know that you may feel like you're in a category five hurricane today, Jeff, you're in Texas. You know about hurricanes, right? So, like, I mean, we have floods, yeah, floods, yeah, yeah, so you understand, but like, Category Five hurricanes, they may feel like they're surrounding your life right now, and you may feel like you're in deep water, and I don't know when it's going to end, but I do believe it will end, and that's the whole message of the book. It's just that hope that the reader will get through this.
Jeff Ma 23:27
And did you? Did you write this out of is this book written in a kind of, is it center around your story as well? That's
Noah Asher 23:36
a good question. I do share a little bit of my story, because for me, um, you know when someone said, like to me, when I was in my deepest, darkest pain, to go, Oh, you're you're going to get through this. And I'm like, Will I like, how do you know that show me? And, um, for me, I wanted to share a little bit of my story, mainly because I wanted the reader to know, like, Oh, he is saying this with confidence, because he's been there, done that, and so I do share some of my story, but I don't want it to come across as it's a memoir, or an autobiography, by any means, because I share stories about so many people throughout the book that in their form of chaos, like I talk about my neighbor, who's, um, the father passed away from covid in 2020 and how, um, his daughter was a senior in high school, so she she graduated without her dad ever seen her walk across the stage and and, Um, growing up how when I was 16, my friend died in a car crash, and how difficult it was for his father to go through that process, but how he overcame and how he found purpose in all of that. So I discussed different stories that I know of that have experienced some form of chaos, but. To look and say, here was where they started, but this is where they end. Like, you know, like, Drake, yeah, started from the bottom.
Jeff Ma 25:09
Well, it sounds really impactful. I think it's definitely worth checking out. And Noah, I appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing your perspective across life, across business, across leadership. I think it's been, it's been very impactful to add your perspective to this conversation. So thanks for joining in today.
Noah Asher 25:26
Well, thank you so much for having me
Jeff Ma 25:28
absolutely and to my audience. Thank you so much for tuning in as always. Please check out our book, Love as a business strategy. Check out chaos overcoming the overwhelming Noah's book, and continue, continue listening, continue learning and sharing with us. Please. We do appreciate all the support. So with that, we'll be signing off. Thank you noag Once again, and we'll see everybody next week.
Unknown Speaker 25:52
You
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
If you want your employees to value your business, you need to value your employees.
Jeff Ma 0:11
Hello and welcome to love as a business strategy a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff MA and as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories from real people about real business and real life. My real life guest today is Noah Asher. And Noah is an award winning author and business owner, and he has a new book called Chaos overcoming the overwhelming, which is helping people find purpose in the pain in their past. And I invited Noah here today to have a conversation about something that I think is not talked about enough, and definitely not enough as a topic on this show. Want to talk about listening, and I think it's such an important topic that I talk about regularly outside the show, and I'm kind of appalled that we haven't hit it here yet. So I'm super excited to welcome Noah Asher to the show. Noah, how are you doing?
Noah Asher 1:20
I'm great. Thanks for having me.
Jeff Ma 1:23
Awesome. Noah, I I'd love to kick things off just with a little bit of a like a background, I guess. But really, I like to center the background around passion. What's your passion and what's the story, or what's the road that brought you to that passion?
Noah Asher 1:39
Yeah, years ago, I found myself in a dark, dark place, and tried taking my own life. And since coming out of that chaos and coming out of that sort of time of my life, I just realized how important it is to cherish each and every moment, but also let people know that they are loved, let people know that they are seen, let them know that they are heard. And for me, my my mantra is always, I want to be the brightest of lights for people in their darkest of pits, simply because I know how important that is, and so that's what my book's about, and that's really what my life is about.
Jeff Ma 2:23
Well, so coming from kind of the lowest of lows and back, what? What really made the difference for you, personally, in that story, like in that journey, what? What turned the corner?
Noah Asher 2:38
It really, there was a my mindset shift that I had, and it really was because of my faith. I realized I was sitting around kind of like Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh, just that Woe is me. You know, there's a cloud always over me, that sort of mindset. And what I did was I stopped saying, God, why me? And I started saying, God, use me, and that shift in my personal life was everything for me. That's pretty much when the light bulb came on and go, I'm not gonna have a pity party, because that's not really a party at all. That's no fun. And get out of that mindset and really start to see how there is purpose and all of the pain that I've been through, and how I can help others.
Jeff Ma 3:26
Amazing. So bringing this around to the business side of the equation, talk a little bit about how that now kind of, I guess, manifests in work, business leadership, etc.
Noah Asher 3:38
Yeah, I worked for a popular hotel chain for a while, and I started at front desk. Within three weeks, they made me the general manager, and then I moved into Director of Operations. And I'm super thankful for the time I had with the the hotel chain. And I wanted to venture out and do my own business. And by doing that, it opened up allowing me to be on podcasts like this, for example, open up my time to connect on different levels while still running a business, and, you know, making money and and living life. But ultimately, by doing my own business, we started doing these undercover assessments, which is similar to secret shopper, and we have been very successful doing that. And now that we have published this book, and it's been very well accepted in the in the Christian kind of non fiction world that now we are helping other authors market their books, promote their books, and get their message out there. I like to put it this way is that I want us to help you build your platform, so all you have to do is stand on it and share your message and it's it's so much fun, it's so rewarding. And that's one thing I learned. I. Uh, about opening my own business and starting my own business was that I am my own boss. I can do whatever I want, and that means I have the opportunity to make my work, um, as meaningful as I want it to be.
Jeff Ma 5:14
So talk a little bit about this secret shopper concept. Can you talk, dive into how that, how that works. Is that still? What is that still what the business does today? Yeah,
Noah Asher 5:25
we still do those that's kind of like our bread and butter when it comes to making money. Um, what we do is we go in, of course, the a manager or an owner of typically it's restaurants. Sometimes it's like a retail sort of business, but typically restaurants, they hire us to go in. We go in undercover. A lot of times, I sit down with the owner or manager ahead of time and say and ask specific questions like, What are you seeing as a common trend already, that maybe you told your staff to do such and such. But then you want to know if they are or not. I try to get a feel for those sorts of things. If they have specific brand standards, like, if I walk in, should they be saying some catch phrase when I walk in the door? I need to know those things, to know if they're actually doing it when I walk in. To be receptive to those, then I don't let the owner or the manager know when I'm coming in or when someone from my team is going in, simply to keep it as unbiased as possible, I want to keep the leadership team even on their toes. But I do, I do typically ask the owner or the manager if they know a few days that they're going to be off. Because to me, that's when you get the real temperature of how things are operating. Is when the manager or the leader is not on site. And that's simply a lot of those things are what I learned from the hotel industry, because hotel industry is, you know, 24/7 and I can't be there all the times that the doors are open, but what I would have to do is sometimes schedule myself to come in at four in the morning to watch the night auditor and see if they're doing what they're supposed to do if they're in uniform. Gosh, you'd be blown away. I've walked in one time and one of my night auditors was wearing, like, pajamas. I was like, What are you doing? And it's just that, you know, because they thought they would never run into me, and so they thought they could get away with it. And so that's very, very crucial, just for any listener who is in leadership, sometimes it's good to shift your schedule without telling anyone and kind of see what's going on. And you know, that's that's a good way to see the temperature of your business. But long story short, we do those sorts of assessments. And then from start to finish, I time everything out, from when they came to seat me, when they took my order, what they said, how they're dressed, and so on. And then I create this assessment, we get back with the leadership team at a later date. We go over the assessment, and then sometimes they actually hire us for a 90 day, sometimes all the way to six month period, to come in and work with our team on training them, on those things that we found that was just slacking
Jeff Ma 8:23
in your experience. In doing this, is there anything that you notice, obviously, focused on the hospitality, restaurant or service industry, like, but is there anything you notice that made for better teams in general, like, when it comes to obviously, they usually care about customer service and things like that. But you know, our kind of mantra here on the show and in the book is that you know all those things are going to start with a culture, going to start with some sort of work place, culture led by the leader, or instilled by the organization. What have you noticed along those lines, like, what? What have you seen that that stands out to you, that that's been worked, that's worked from a culture perspective, coming in as this third party auditor, yeah, what have you seen?
Noah Asher 9:09
I think honestly, from the very beginning, I feel like from that welcome, with that greeting when you walk in, I personally feel as if I can tell whether or not the leader is passionate about having their team on the same level, on the same on board with what they're doing and what their vision is based on how the employee greets me when I walk in
Jeff Ma 9:36
just the first five seconds. Yes, you walk in and you already get a feel for the the leaders right passion,
Noah Asher 9:43
simply because you know if, if they're supposed to greet you when you walk in, and they're not, and they just are standing there on their phone, and you can just sense that they don't care about their their role. Personally, I feel like, okay, well that tells me at the top they're not pushing for them. Sorts of things. And you know, if you want to value your if you want your employees to value your business, you need to value your employees. And that's where it begins.
Jeff Ma 10:15
Awesome. So I know our topic is, is around listening. I want to invite you today because I wanted your take on the importance of listening. I know mainly because, number one, you as a secret shopper have been coming in and listening on behalf of these companies and seeing and hearing what's going on around but also you as a business owner, I know you have, you have weight in, in your leadership, in the way you run your business, in the importance of listening to employees and to what's going on. So can you, can you share your perspective around listening and as it pertains to like your culture, and how it pertains to how, you know, how people show up to work.
Noah Asher 11:03
Yeah, can you repeat that I wasn't listening, but no, it's very listening when you and I discuss that topic. I love that we get to have this conversation. Because, as I mentioned earlier, people, no matter where they come from, where they live. Everyone wants to be seen and everyone wants to be heard. I mean, just look at social media the way it is, and everyone's fighting to have a voice, and even in the comments, you know, it's like, let's see what we can say. Let's see who's gonna pay attention to us. And in leadership, it's, it takes that moment, and it doesn't even take long to walk in. I've walked into my office plenty of times and gone, Hey guys, let's blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, and just go ahead and start the day. But then I realized, Wait, hold on. Hey guys, how are you, you know, stopping that moment and just going, wait, wait, you know, rewind for a moment. Let's pause. Let's have a conversation first, because it goes back to, if I value them, they're going to value what I'm doing and what our product is and what our goal is. The Passion begins with the leader, and I think, through stopping and letting your employees feel as if they are seen and they are heard, oh, that's gold. That's that's where the money is. You You cannot whether you're a business owner or just a leader or in some sort of management role where you oversee employees. You want to make your job easier, you don't have to be there every second of every day. And so if you surround yourself with people who you value them, they're going to value the products, but they're also going to value when your time away from the office is there, they're not going to be blowing up your phone. They're going to feel empowered. They're going to do what they need to do to run the business, because they're going to want you to have your time away. And it all to me personally, it starts with listening. I learned this early on in the hotel industry. You know, you have all of these different departments, from housekeeping to front desk to the food and beverage part. And there'd be many times where listening comes in many different forms. One is stopping and saying, you know, Hey, how are you? And truly listening to how they are, not just the whole, I'm good, you're good. All right, cool, you know, actually learning and listening to them. But then it also matters when it comes to listening. In regards to conflict, I would have housekeepers come to me and complain about another housekeeper complain about front desk. And I'm like, I don't want to make if this is how you feel, I cannot change that. You know, the whole, the whole idiom where it goes perception is reality, and it may not be full reality, but it's at least their reality. And so I need to stop and go, Okay, if they're bringing this to me, they're hurt. They feel a certain way about this topic, and this is why there's conflict. So I'm going to stop what I'm doing, let them know that I value their time and I value what they're saying to me, and then go, All right, well, let's bring the other person into the room. And now not only am I listening, but I'm also listening to the other side of things, and we're all three having a conversation, open communication, where we can fix the problem. And that's to me, that's the goal. That's the best advice I can give anyone when it comes to listening to that it matters, especially when conflict arises, that you can stop and listen.
Jeff Ma 14:46
That's such good advice for me personally, because I know that I've caught myself instinctively whenever someone brings a problem, especially around conflict, is I immediately apply my own perspective to it, and I make some determination. Assumptions or assumptions, especially as a leader like I've, I think I've been kind of raised to, like, have the answer or solution or come up with the the correct approach or solution right away. And so I'll kind of size it up, and I'll judge it right away, and I'll kind of either like, impose that solution or minimize how they're feeling about it in the moment. Because I'll just kind of, I'll just rationalize it out so like, Oh, you have this problem. Oh, you're overreacting. It's just, it's just nice, and that's my that's my go to because in my mind, I'm solving the problem my mind, I'm I'm putting it to rest. And I think that that advice you just gave us is key for me to kind of keep in mind, because that perception doesn't change, or that reality for the business change, and if just by minimizing it, I may not be fixing the real issue at hand. Yeah,
Noah Asher 15:51
and honestly, there's times where maybe someone else in leadership, like one of my managers, or someone has already told me, hey, this person is about to come to you and complain. Gosh, even customers have done that where I've, like, already heard from the employee. Oh, this, this customer is upset. For example, they're about to come down and, you know, yell at you. The the number one thing it goes back to listening is to not go, like, to cut them off and go, Okay, we already know what you're going to say. No, let them speak. Let them voice their their feelings out there. That is very, very, very important, because sometimes, after they just unleash their their thought on it, or their feeling on it, a lot of times they are already begin feeling better that they just had an opportunity, you know, a lending ear. And so don't. Another good advice is just don't cut them off and go, Oh, I already know what you're gonna tell me, No, let them just voice it, because half the time after they voice it, they've already calmed way down, and now you can have a genuine conversation about it.
Jeff Ma 17:06
That brings me to, like, curiosity around, what do you do with what do you do after listening? Sometimes, because I've worked with a number of groups, companies like and executives and teams where, like, you come in and like again, when you're just kind of talking to them, to the side, or individuals, you get that exact thing you just described, which is, they're like, already, they've already heard it all. You know? They they're like, oh, this person is not going to like this. This person really wants this, to change this like, so they have all this all sized up and so that they've heard, but I'm not sure that they've listened a lot of times I asked them, What have you done about it? Like, if you know that they're unhappy about this, or if you know that they complain about this, what's been done? And a lot of times it comes back, like, Well, we haven't really, like, sat down and addressed that issue directly. We just know that sentiment because of the constant, you know, complaints or the gripes, yeah, and to them, it's just the horn is a thorn in the side, because they're just like, they won't shut up about it. So, like, I guess, what? What do you say to, like, to that, the person in that position, or, like, what's, what's the right steps to take if you're hearing them when you need to move to listening and taking action, like, where should you be going? Yeah,
Noah Asher 18:23
so for me, um, it goes back to the hotel experience I had. We had a model we we use, and I use it in my personal life. I use it in my business. I and I recommend it for anyone and everyone the sound of my voice, but it's the Learn model, and it's listen and then you empathize. It's okay to listen and then kind of say, Okay, I know where you're coming from, or I hear where you're coming from. I see how that would make you upset, and even repeat back some of what they said, so they know for sure that it's more than just hearing. Is actually listening, as you said, empathize with them. And then here's, here's the word that none of us want to use today, but it's apologize. We have to stop and we have to apologize and say, I'm sorry that this happened, and not say, Oh, I'm sorry you feel that way. That's a cop out, right? We don't, we don't want to hear that. We want to hear I'm sorry that this happened. And now you move into the the fourth letter, which is rectify and resolve the issue. And then fourth is notify, for example, if and because I'm in a leadership role, if I do, if I listen, I empathize, I apologize, I rectify, and then to notify, I'm going to sit down with my staff and go, Okay, hey guys, we dropped the ball. How do we not do that again? I love football, so I'll use that example. But you know, in the middle of the game, if one of your players fumbles the ball, you don't stop the game and go, hey coach, this person fumbled. Get on to them. No, you pick it up. You run it you. Score it and into the end zone after the game, that's when you sit down, you go over the footage, you sit down with the team and go, Hey, I'm glad we scored, but we dropped the ball. How do we not do that again? And resolve it behind the scenes after the fact as well. So not only are you making that one employee or that one customer satisfied now you're making it where we have implementation that it doesn't happen any longer. You know hearing versus listening, in my opinion, is hearing is getting on that hamster wheel and just running, running, running and exerting, exerting, exerting, but never going anywhere. And for when it comes to listening that's actually getting outside and going, Okay, let's, let's make moves. Let's, we've heard what's going on now we're not just going to hear it. We're going to listen and we're going to follow through with whatever is truly the issue.
Jeff Ma 20:59
I love it. I want to save room and shift gears, because I also want to talk about your book. I want to talk about chaos, overcoming the overwhelming. And it may not, it may or may not, have connections to listening, but I wanted to make sure we touched on it, because I think it's such a powerful part of your your journey as well. You talk a little bit about the book and talk a little bit about the the entire concept of this kind of pain in in kind of past and overcoming those those things, yeah,
Noah Asher 21:31
for the listener, if you ever see the cover is it's an umbrella, and it has words raining down upon the umbrella. And I feel like a lot of times when we're in the midst of our own chaos, we feel like it's a storm and it's just consuming us. And the words that I put are very specific because I wanted people to understand that chaos comes in many different forms. For someone listening to this, it may be job loss or bankruptcy or it may be divorce or the loss of a loved one or illness, and the list is endless, but what we talk about in the book is, while our chaos may look different there, we can still all overcome and so it is a self help sort of book, but it does have Christian undertones throughout it. So I like that to be known, because I don't want to hide that fact. So if that's not your your cup of tea. I don't want to try to trick you into buying it. I want to just be upfront about it, but we do discuss it. And so for me, my faith played such a big role in going from pain to purpose, and so that's why I discuss it. But bottom line is, while our chaos may look different, we can all overcome and even though there is purpose in our pain, I don't believe our pain was ever our purpose. There's more to our life, and I want to make sure people know that, and know that you may feel like you're in a category five hurricane today, Jeff, you're in Texas. You know about hurricanes, right? So, like, I mean, we have floods, yeah, floods, yeah, yeah, so you understand, but like, Category Five hurricanes, they may feel like they're surrounding your life right now, and you may feel like you're in deep water, and I don't know when it's going to end, but I do believe it will end, and that's the whole message of the book. It's just that hope that the reader will get through this.
Jeff Ma 23:27
And did you? Did you write this out of is this book written in a kind of, is it center around your story as well? That's
Noah Asher 23:36
a good question. I do share a little bit of my story, because for me, um, you know when someone said, like to me, when I was in my deepest, darkest pain, to go, Oh, you're you're going to get through this. And I'm like, Will I like, how do you know that show me? And, um, for me, I wanted to share a little bit of my story, mainly because I wanted the reader to know, like, Oh, he is saying this with confidence, because he's been there, done that, and so I do share some of my story, but I don't want it to come across as it's a memoir, or an autobiography, by any means, because I share stories about so many people throughout the book that in their form of chaos, like I talk about my neighbor, who's, um, the father passed away from covid in 2020 and how, um, his daughter was a senior in high school, so she she graduated without her dad ever seen her walk across the stage and and, Um, growing up how when I was 16, my friend died in a car crash, and how difficult it was for his father to go through that process, but how he overcame and how he found purpose in all of that. So I discussed different stories that I know of that have experienced some form of chaos, but. To look and say, here was where they started, but this is where they end. Like, you know, like, Drake, yeah, started from the bottom.
Jeff Ma 25:09
Well, it sounds really impactful. I think it's definitely worth checking out. And Noah, I appreciate you coming on the show today and sharing your perspective across life, across business, across leadership. I think it's been, it's been very impactful to add your perspective to this conversation. So thanks for joining in today.
Noah Asher 25:26
Well, thank you so much for having me
Jeff Ma 25:28
absolutely and to my audience. Thank you so much for tuning in as always. Please check out our book, Love as a business strategy. Check out chaos overcoming the overwhelming Noah's book, and continue, continue listening, continue learning and sharing with us. Please. We do appreciate all the support. So with that, we'll be signing off. Thank you noag Once again, and we'll see everybody next week.
Unknown Speaker 25:52
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