Diane Maben  
Every person has to make a real concerted effort to be known.

You must be vulnerable with the other person. In order for me to trust you, I knew need to show trust. And that's that is not easy. Sometimes as managers we think we're this, I don't know superhuman. But people want to know that you're, we're, we're all the same, we're all the same.

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to Love as a Business Strategy, a podcast that brings you men into the workplace. We're here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. And we believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, as always, Jeff Ma. And I'm here to have those conversations with real people in the real world around real business and see where love might fit into that equation. And my guest today is the Chief Operating Officer at Amegy. Bank, Diane Maben, in this role, she manages corporate communication, marketing, product implementation, service and quality management, and other operational risk functions on top of directly supporting in the bank strategic initiatives and communication. She also currently serves on the board of provision, Inc, and as a volunteer with United Way of Greater Houston, and the NAACP act. So amongst many other things she does, I don't want to spoil it all because I want to have the actual conversation about her. I'm very excited because I've had the pleasure of meeting her earlier last end of last year. And I just think she's one of the most incredible humans. So I've invited her on the show, because I wanted to dig into this conversation. And so Diane, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have you here.

Diane Maben  
You know, I am happy to be here, I am honored someone wants to hear my story, because I don't feel like I have a real story to tell. But I'm always talking. So there must be something going on around.

Jeff Ma  
I used to say the same thing that I don't have a story to tell until someone asks, so here we are asking. And I'm hoping to get get more of, of your story out here for everyone to learn from experience. And I want to kick that off with a very simple question, which is, what are you passionate about?

Diane Maben  
Wow, that one is very easy. I'm very passionate about people. I'm passionate about the caring and thinking of people. And the more I engage with the world, listen to the news, the more passionate I become about it. Because until we learn to care about each other, we're not going to need to change anything. Nothing will change because I think everything starts with real sincere, caring.

Jeff Ma  
And how does that play out for you in your life?

Diane Maben  
One, is it's exhausting. You know, for me, it is every single engagement with anyone is important to me. I have I take the time to listen to anyone that needs a moment. Because life is lived in moments it's not lived in hours is not days life is in the moment. And if at a critical moment someone needs your attention. You just need to stop even if you have to say, can I get back to you, because everybody wants to know that they're cared about. So for me, it is actually stopping whenever I feel a need or sense that someone has something they feel like they need to share or say. And I have a huge family. I have nine siblings, a lot of talking across that scale. So they're always sharing. And I have a great staff of people and friends. And part of that is I know that they are aware that I care for them. And I want them to always know that that I will show up for them anytime they need me. And my expectation is that they will show up for me.

Jeff Ma  
Love it. And you know, one thing that I really want to hear more about is your story. You are a black female leader, Chief Operating Officer at Amegy Bank, a large organization and you're very, very successful, but I know there's a journey to get to that point. And, you know, not to harp on the black or the female part. But there's a lot of respect I have for what it must have taken and the obstacles that you overcome to achieve what you have today and I really was hoping you could share a little bit more maybe take us back in time about and kind of walk us through a little bit I have your journey here. 

Diane Maben  
You know, one one thing that most people, I mean, I don't think about every day when I get up that I'm a black person, or I'm a woman, I'm a person. I get up every day, I'm just a person doing what I do. And even as a as a young kid, it was always just being a person. But I had the most incredible parents on the planet. We were poor. I didn't realize how poor until my sophomore year in college, when I had an opportunity to see my father's tax return. My father was raising 10 kids on $18,000 a year. And I never lacked for a single thing. I never knew I was poor until I actually arrived at Smith College in Northampton, Massachusetts, where everybody had been to Europe, they played polo, they'd been swimming, they've done all these things that I didn't know people did every day, as a form of recreation. Because my life it was getting up, going to school we played when you played outside in the backyard, we didn't take trips. And I didn't experience prejudice. Until the first time. I stepped foot set foot on the County Campus of Smith College. So I wasn't aware of the practices in life, my dad shielded us from all of that. So Smith was predominantly white, almost no one looked like me. And every Thursday, they had these cool white linen nights were dinner was served in your dining room, and parents came and had dinner with their kids. I'm from Memphis, Tennessee port My parents never showed up. But I had an opportunity to dine with others and I, but you still had to take your dishes back to the kitchen when you were done. And I remember being in the kitchen. And the parent walked in and said to me, you know, must be really great to work here. And I and it was not said out of malice or to do harm. It was just the expectation that if I was on that campus, I must be working there. There was no way that I could be a student. And I thought well, maybe that's what prejudice is people prejudging. But I've never really experienced some of the hate, that I hear about or that I've seen, or the stories when you tell the stories of others who suffer that way. So it was just understanding at that moment, there was a real difference. And then my dad said before I left to go off to school, they will be different, it will be different there. But you need to understand everyone wants to understand you. And you would like to understand them. So be willing to share about yourself as best you can. That was the best advice I could have been given. So it was going from an environment where absolutely everyone looks like me to an environment where almost no one looks like me. And understanding that I will still make nothing changed. I was still me. And I always thank my parents, for really sort of marinating me in love for 18 years. I wish every kid could have experience the love of my parents because that love protected me from so many things. But then entering the work world. People just want to gravitate toward me even that today, even as a kid. I've had a I have an interesting poll people trust me, without knowing why they trust me. They invite me into their spaces without knowing why they've invited me and they listen to me. Even though they wish I they had not asked that specific question. So I wouldn't I can't tell you I don't have a hard story. I have little moments where reality cracked open, and I had to make a decision. I remember my job and working and I was a product manager. And when they decided to hire a manager for the team, even though I've been doing the job for a while, decided to hire a headhunter to find someone to run the team. And I kept thinking, Well, why not me? So I got the courage to ask why not me? I've been doing it. And the answer was you don't have enough experience. Like, okay, it's kind of true. It's my first product management job, but I've been doing it and doing it successfully. But it was not offered the immediate opportunity to take it on. I would wonder had I been not me dressed in this uniform when I've been offered the opportunity. So I had to decide what's my next action because in every single thing you do you have a next action. I learned that also from my father you haven't Next Action, you must always take the ball back. So the ball was in my court and what did I do with that? So I had to go and say, Okay, I get it. So will you compensate me for this interim time, because that's why I just wanted to be paid for the time I did do the job, and I'm willing to step back. And he thought about it, and I did get a bonus. And that's me. They hired a person, that person did'nt work and I got the job. You know that another opportunity. My work was actually thrown in the trash in front of my face. And like, what do you do with that? Why would someone throw your work away, I worked really hard. I quit the job and went home. And they call me to come back. And it was another opportunity for me to Les let me square this up a little bit. Yes, I will come back. But be clear, I will sue you if this ever happens again. You know, I think this is all because my parents were always very outspoken. So I always felt like I could say what needed to be said, when I needed to say it. Because my parents were always there to catch me. So the moment when I lost my mother, my dad died first, my mom died. I felt shaken. So the thing that kept me grounded, and feeling safe, was no longer there. It's my parents that if I fail, now, they would catch me. If something was broken, they would put me back together. So that that was unsettling for a while, because the one thing I will say to you, I never thought I would say to someone that I had my parents, I had a parent that was murdered. Like, wow, that was not supposed to be in my life story. Then later, I had a brother who was drug addicted. This started to sound cliche to me, I was becoming the black American cliche, My story started to look like that. Because my mother died of violent death, my brother turned to drugs. And what does that mean about me. And the truth is, it didn't didn't define me at all. It helped me to better understand how strong I had been taught to be and how strong I am. And then I can recover. So everything I do is based on those things, I don't walk around thinking about this covering, because this covering this scan, helps me to experience life, it helps you to experience me, and vice versa. Because without some basis to deal with, we don't know how to experience each other. So that's, to me, it's temporary, I am not this wrapping. This is how you get to meet me first and determine how we interact with each other. So it was a lot of a lot of learning through that. That makes sense.

Jeff Ma  
And I really appreciate you sharing that story, that context. And that that background, it just it clicks a lot for me, because the moment the day I met you, I remember one of the things that stood out to me immediately was your voice. And I don't mean the quality and the tone of your voice. But it's how you use it. It's how you how you joked with it, and how you asserted yourself in the conversation. And I always felt that there was so much power behind that. And hearing your story, I see that it wasn't necessarily just power given to you but as power that you learned wield through that through that foundation that your parents gave you. And that's incredible, because that's your superpower. As far as I'm concerned. Every, every time I've worked with you or or talked to you, that you command respect and attention without force. And I love that about you. So thank you for sharing.

Diane Maben  
Thank you. I mean, I command a tense I'm gonna write that down. So that when I'm feeling that, you know, weak moment, I didn't say Jeff said I command 

Jeff Ma  
 I mean it. I absolutely mean .

You know what that is kind.Thank you

Well, I want to dig into that actually, because this is not, I think what you're talking about, like some some of the hurdles, and some of the stories you're sharing are commonplace for many people, not just from a from a race perspective, just from working in the real world. We all face these moments where we need a voice, we need to find power somewhere in our in our life in our careers. And a lot of times this is these are the turning points that people struggle with. We talk about love as a business strategy. A lot of it is trying to create environments that make that make every person feel empowered in that space, to be able to speak their mind to have the truth come out and be honest and be themselves. And not a lot of not every workplace affords that to people for one reason or the other. And I really wanted to have that conversation with you today. On And really in your mind? How do you take this superpower you have? How do you lead those around you through that power? And how do you help? Kind of, you know, you say, put people first how do you help others with that?

Diane Maben  
You know, one of the things if my staff were here talking to you, they will tell you, I insist that they speak up. I mean, you would have if you're going to be on my team, I don't need a Yes, man, I can look in the mirror and talk to myself and nod my head. Yeah, agree with myself all day long, but I'm not gonna learn anything. And the workplace is about learning. It's not just about generating profit or completing a project. It's about learning. And as the managers learn employees like everybody is learning. And in the middle of a project, I consider myself initially as a peer even though my staff never sees me that way, right. But I'm believing that I'm a peer at that moment, and we're all working it out. But I know that at the end of the day, when a decision has to be made, then I have to make the call if they don't want to make it or can't make it. But as getting to know each person on their terms, I've always hated that phrase that says, check your personal problems out the door. How in the world is that possible, if you just left a critical situation, you got to have space to the least vent it for a minute. So we can set the expectations for you for the day even that means I need to say you time for you to go home, because you're not going to be able to engage with us, or let's talk about how we help you not do your work for you, but help you keep being productive as you move through. But it's listening. It's It's It's insisting that people speak up. And so for me, every person on my team has a voice. No one is allowed to be silent. And everyone has to be open to that tough conversation that harsh comments they wish they didn't have to hear. I remember one session staff meeting, I started a meeting with everyone would go around the table and said I wish Diane would not or I wish she would, because I wanted them to know if I can take the bullet then because you're going to be next. They didn't know that. And I started off with my assistant who have been who has become the most outspoken person on the team saying the thing that the others probably would not say to me about being maybe a little harsh or a little Curt or pushing too hard. But once she was able to share, others opened up and shared the things that I did that they did not like. And out of that I learned that I needed to be more pleasant under pressure. We call it pup now. So when and because when I'm under pressure, I'm not pleasant. I'm using as few words as possible. They're all nouns and verbs. That's it, you know, getting adjectives, adverbs, all nouns and verbs do this, don't do that, how about but they gave them the gives them the freedom to give it back to talk to me, person to person. Because that was a requirement for me to work at this bank money was important. But I had two more things. One, the door had to be open, I didn't want to work in a place where I needed permission to talk to the CEO. I didn't want to have to go to my manager and that manager and get a meeting with the CEO. I wanted to be able to go and visit with the CEO when I felt like it if he was willing to see me. And the other one that my voice needs to be heard. You don't have to do what I say. But I want to be heard I want to do when I am here to do advice. We're all working in advisory capacity, because we don't own the place. So if that was important to me, then I thought that everyone around me should have that same liberty, that same thing. So that's critical. And for us to be at our best. We must be able to show up who we are authentically who we are every single day. But when we're not doing our best job or being our best work, we need to have people around us to say you know that that didn't look so great. Or that wasn't good. Not out of competition, but out of caring. I care about you. So I'm gonna tell you. And so that's every day that is how it happens. We laugh I laugh and I laugh at myself harder than others laugh because I am goofy. But when I'm working I'm working really hard, but mostly. I am working really hard to make sure my staff is leveling up. Now they tell me why do I keep raising the bar? And it's because when I was a kid, my dad no matter what I did, it was always you You could do better. And I remember coming out with the straight eight cards being really happy, and my dad will do better next time. And I remember the last time you said that my mother said full. She's gotten straight A's, what else do you want her to do? And he laughed, and I want to let you know, I don't know what else I can do for him. But I realized he was still telling me that I could still push harder. And I do that to the team today. And one of the staff members brought it to my attention. When I told you that story. She said, that's what you do to us. We don't get to revel in the success I'm working on that. I don't allow them the time they want to celebrate. I want to go Okay, what's next? How are we gonna do this better. But I work as hard as a team, I willing to put in as many hours as it takes and working alongside them. Because it's fun. I love watching people grow.

Jeff Ma  
I'm curious as your team, as your team heard, how you're like, as all your team heard how your dad used to push you in that way? Does that? That context? Not all,

Diane Maben  
only a couple of them only a couple of them all? Because we're in a conference room, chances are when they catch me right on the one on one, what, pardon me, they get that day. And that particular day? I don't know. I just like conversation, it reminded me of my dad, because I was pushing this young staff member it's like, now I get it. Because it's like you got to always you got to level up. Because life is always changing. Yes, it still.

Jeff Ma  
I feel like that's the exact kind of story and context, especially just even in your in your intro you gave in the in the podcast today, around how you were raised and how you grew up and how you came to be, you know, that context plus hearing how your dad made you better. You know, if I'm someone working under you, and I feel like you're you're you're being hard on me. That very context helps me so much to understand where you're coming from. And it turns almost frustration into a feeling of being cared for in love. If I if I understand that's where you're coming from, I think such that's so powerful.

Diane Maben  
Well, you know, I might tell others, I might even want you to say it, I might tell others. I'm really hopeful that they all know that I care a lot about them. Because I work hard for them every day I stand in the gap for my team and like say, would you take a bullet for me at work, I take a bullet for them every day. While I expect a lot from them, I will allow no one, no one to come to them and be disrespectful or demean them or not give them the credit that they will that's due, I will not allow that. Because everyone on my team works really hard. It may not turn out perfect. But I know that they've given me their best effort that day, and will get better. So I that's my job to remove roadblocks and to protect them from unnecessary or weird criticism. Because my friends do that for me. My parents did that for me. And I think that's what you do when you're a manager. I never wanted kids. But I'd like that's what parenting must be like. So I like that I have grown kids so they don't need all that care, to finance all that stuff. But you got to help them grow and learn and create an environment where they are safe to learn and make mistakes.

Jeff Ma  
And your perspective is so important. It's honestly the reason I even do this podcast is because we talk about love as a business strategy, often missing the fact that love is different to different people, what we consider to be love in our life. And our example of love. And what Love feels like looks like is largely dependent on how we were raised what we've experienced, how we how we interact with the world. And so hearing your father and your parents love for you in one form and seeing that play out. Out of love for you to the team. It's such an important connection to make. I don't think people always realize that what they expect in terms of love may not be the same as what others are trying to give. And that's a conversation we don't have enough around love As love as a business strategy because it can be so it can be so black and white. Sometimes when you say oh, are you loving, are you not? And a lot of times our intentions are to love our actions may may be interpreted differently.

Diane Maben  
I think that's true. I had a conversation with another one of my staff members some time ago she said well, your love languages this it was more about getting things done and handling and making sure people have what they need to say Mine is on her love language was about sort of talking and hugging and you know, touching. And so how we how we love is it is different. But what's important is we must somehow make people aware of how we love. So they know when they are being loved and the way that I know how to do it. Because you can't make me love you how you want it, to have to do and how I know how to do it. And I will evolve over time as I work with you. But you got to give me enough grace, to grow in love with you. Because we grow in love together is not a separate thing. So but we got to give each other grace and patience to do that. And we don't give each other grace, we will slam the door and lock it and throw away the key when you mess up. And that's not the way it should be.

Jeff Ma  
I couldn't agree more. I feel like so many leaders I talked to I always just have to start with the power and the simplicity of sharing your intentions. I think so. So often. The simple part that gets unsaid or left unsaid is just starting conversation with Hey, Diane, here's what I'm bringing you in this conversation for. Here's my intent. Here's why I want to do it this way. Here's why it sets. It doesn't fix everything. But sometimes that step is skipped. And I think we jump straight to the work. And in everything is lost in translation and kind of the gaps are filled in by our own imagination.

Diane Maben  
Most times that step is skipped. I can tell you for sure. As much as I think I do a lot of things right? I know for sure I don't do that 90% of the time. I don't say no, here's what we're gonna do. And here's why I think we should do it this way. And let's talk it out. No, I'm saying here's what we need. Here's outcome I need go. Only when there was a hiccup or a blip or a stumble, that that I have to step back and go Okay, listen, here's why I really asked you to do that. And here's how I was thinking the whole time it was going to work for you. I probably should have shared that in the beginning, it would have helped a lot. But you know, you're thinking you're on we're on the same page. You how I think about it, this how everyone thinks about it, because that's who we are, as me definitely everyone clearly thinks the way I did. So I'm always thinking that I don't Why couldn't you see that is so evident to me. But the truth is just because we all have two eyes to see. We don't all see the same. Our perception and how we discern things is so different because we're seeing through the eyes of our past. We're seeing from the eyes of our past experiences, not of today. Because I only have one of these lenses. They they're I see. But it's all the stuff that you don't see that comes with my vision. Yeah, it's it's people are hard. We seem simple. But people are hard. When we don't take the time to relax into each other. Right? It's relaxing into each other.

Jeff Ma  
You mentioned earlier, this idea of having your door open. I'm curious, what advice do you have for I stumbled upon this a lot. And I'm guilty of this myself where you you have every intention of wanting your team and those around you to be honest and come to you for help. And so you can support. And so you have this open door metaphorically or literally policy. And at least in my experience, I desired that deeply. And I opened my door and nobody would walk through it. And I don't know if you've experienced that or if you had people who you know, what advice would you give to people who who like what other steps have you taken to get people to walk through that door to actually get to a point where they are willing or can trust to come to you with bad news and with help and with weaknesses.

Diane Maben  
You know you have every person has to make a real concerted effort to be known. You must be vulnerable with the other person. In order for me to trust you I need to show trust and that's that is not easy. Sometimes as managers we think we're this I don't know superhuman. But people want to know that you're we're we're all the same we're all the same what might be different on numbers, our paychecks are different, but past our paychecks, and actually the actual were the same. So stopping by a desk and passing through and saying good morning or calm commenting on something or asking someone about a weekend or sharing something about yourself, makes you more human to the other person. And when you reveal a mistake that you made, that shows that I'm not perfect, and when you ask for advice from your staff members, that shows that you're not perfect. And when they show up at your door, you must smile and welcome them in and don't start working on your phone or on your computer while they're talking to you stop and listen. And by all means, ask them a couple of questions about themselves, not just about the work, like how are you? Right? So I have the new people join in. And I sometimes ask how they are, they immediately start telling me about the work. So this great, tell me about you? How are you doing? Because how is that work? And then you can tell me about the work? Because if you are not okay, the work is probably not okay. So it's work. It's an effort to say I want to know you. And I am really grateful that all of my direct staff have been with me for at least five years. And they know me, I feel like they really know me. And my assistant was sometimes tell him when it wasn't, it was a good time to come by to see me like, oh, there's not a good time. And you should come back later. You know. So that's knowing the person that you're working with. And you can tell others. Yeah, not a good time, she might say yes, but this is not a good time. Or they can look at me and say something is wrong, tell you want to talk about it. Because this is where I spend a lot of my time with these people during this work. And it is leaning in and saying we're all in this together. We are all in this together. We're all just people. If a paycheck makes you think I'm smarter than you are, we have a problem. Because a paycheck means I'm I got somewhere faster than you. I don't know if somebody's getting you, I don't know. But it really is a paycheck. For my office. It's just, it's geography. The real stuff is what's inside of us. And you have to just lean into people and be goofy with them. And they reveal something about you that if they go tell someone else, it's not going to kill you. You might not want them to tell it. But it's okay. You're not going to die from it. Nobody's ever died from embarrassment. It'll be okay. 

Jeff Ma  
Could come close. But yeah, but you won't die. But not quite.

Diane Maben  
You'll be resuscitated me back at it.

Jeff Ma  
Well, then, I really appreciate this, this conversation, this perspective, and you sharing so much about yourself and your story. It's it's meant a lot to me. And I think it's helpful to continue. You know, like, like I mentioned this, the purpose of this podcast is to keep giving perspectives and stories from various people across the different practices and positions. And, and yours is truly, truly unique and important. So thank you for sharing that today

Diane Maben  
is my pleasure. And I think everyone will want to talk to you this cool radio voice. So don't cut it back. This is a real great voice. And I might tell you more things than you want to know, because it's such a relaxing voice. So thank you for the time.

Jeff Ma  
Thank you, Diane. And thank you to the listeners. As always, we appreciate you taking the time to listen, I hope you enjoyed this one. And we hope you're checking out our book Love as a Business Strategy. Still, there still kicking. And we hope you're subscribing and rating and leaving feedback, all those good things telling your friends, because we love doing this. And we hope you keep keep coming back and listening and that I hope you keep practicing your pleasant under pressure philosophy. Maybe I'll get I'll talk to some of your team members and see if you're succeeding in that or not. I'll hear from them. Please do. I'll let you know. I'll give you that direct feedback. But with that, everybody have a great week, and we'll see you next week.