Jeff Ma  
Hey folks, if you follow the show or you've read the book, you've probably heard of Seneca leaders, a unique one day experience that helps people transform mindsets and shape new behaviors. I'm so proud to host the facilitate these sessions alongside my co authors and colleagues. And I would really love for you to come and join us learn more about it by visiting Seneca leaders.com. And now, on with the show.

Sarah Fontenot  
I think you can be generous and still be wildly profitable. And that's what we're going for it in terms of you can run a profitable business and still have generosity at its core. I don't think they have to, I don't think get to choose between one or the other.

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about businesses, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders might shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, Jeff Ma. And as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories from real people around real business and real life. And my guest today is Sarah Fontenot, no. And after starting her career as a CPA at PricewaterhouseCoopers. She is now a certified financial planner at Arcos and specializes in helping families thrive across generations. She's married to her husband, Ryan and just recently welcomed her son, April in September. Sarah, you're a first time parents so I know how crazy life can be for you right now. So I really appreciate you taking the time to join and talk today.

Sarah Fontenot  
Well, thanks for having me, where you have a six month old who's officially sleeping through the night. So you feel like a new woman.

Jeff Ma  
Congratulate that's a milestone for sure. Yeah, yeah. Glad to glad to hear you're getting some rest. But for the audience sake, I always like to start at a very personal level. Sure, if you don't mind, I'd love to hear your story, your version of your story, if you will, that really leads up to what you're passionate about today. What brought you here?

Sarah Fontenot  
Yeah. Well, I thanks again for having me, Jeff. And I love the name of the podcast love as a business strategy. Because my passion point is really the transformation of families. And, you know, we're in the wealth management circle, I work for Arcos, as you Global Advisors, as you said. And so we have a lot of really close communication with the families that we serve across the spectrum because your money touches all areas of your life. So this really goes back to childhood. Really, there's two, I guess, defining moments, if you will, that, I think put me on a path to where I am today. The first was I grew up in the church, as a believer, and I always heard about our church would send missionaries all over the world to go tell people about Jesus. And I remember thinking is like an eight or 10 year old man, what about corporate America? You know, who's bringing the love of Jesus and their faith into the workplace? And what does that look like to bring the gospel, if you will, to corporate America. And I don't know why I was kind of young to be thinking that but I just thought I just thought it was strange that we were sending missionaries to China, Asia and Africa and not sending people to America, because I thought America is dying. And again, I was pretty young to be thinking those things, but it's stuck with me. And then I think the other piece is I grew up playing Team sports love team sports fan, just this idea of being a part of a high capacity team, where you're building something that's bigger than anybody else on the team. And you can't get there unless everybody is running their hardest and bringing their best and collaborating. And that's what I really found when I made my way to Archos Global Advisors, you know, we started six years ago was it now, in April of 2017. I came about six months after launch. And it was we call it a 25 year startup in the making, because and we started with a book at Morgan Stanley, our principal Jeff Thomas was there grew up on Wall Street, if you will, for 25 years and realize there's a better way of serving these families. Wealth Management is notorious for being about sales, and being very transactional and product pushing. And while I claim to be your advisor, I'm just trying to get a little more juice on the back end for my personal bottom line. And what we learned is that these families, they really do crave good advice. They crave to be treated with respect, but also to have this very intimate part of their lives, their finances to be handled with care. And what we found is the investments in the strategy are they matter a lot, but if we can work with these families, to talk about their family and the legacy that they're living, it brings not just a lot of value, but I think what should be standard practice for our industry. And so when we got started, that was really my role was What are we going to offer on this family and legacy piece? How are we going to really serve families in a way that scalable? You know, our vision is to be one of the top 10 on Wall Street, which is a very big holy, audacious goal where we're pinprick compared to the Goldman Sachs right now. But with a god sized vision, you can have a lot of fun creating and a lot of room for growth. And so what does it look like to scale with for these families? And then where do we end and other people begin? And how do we price it and make it profitable, and yet move from the transactional space to the transformational space with these families. So that's kind of how I landed where I am today.

Jeff Ma  
That's awesome. And, you know, there's so many different angles, I wanted to take this conversation. But I think the two that that really draw my curiosity revolve around the culture itself, within your organization, being somewhat of a startup with these large goals, how love plays into that in real ways, in real tangible ways. And also talking about this mission itself, or in terms of when you're working in finance, which, as you mentioned, and as I cover, often on this show, is, is often considered kind of the opposite end of love when it comes to business. It's the greed as a business strategy for the most part. So I'd like to start with the latter one, if you don't mind. Sure. When you think of love, in finance, and specifically, you know, you're working in wealth management, all these things. What's the differentiator? How do you? How do you differentiate between the greed and the love when you have to work with the money itself?

Sarah Fontenot  
Yeah, I think the easiest inroad, and the easiest crossroad for a lot of advisors from here's your performance, your portfolio, how we're making you grow money to the more, I guess, intimate conversations, if you will, that bridge a lot of times is generosity. And so I think generosity becomes the bridge where you can have some more in depth conversations. Because when you know, our target market really is generous business owners and those people who have created outsized wealth, but they also want to multiply it for more than just their own personal use. And so when you begin to have the generosity conversation, you know, my favorite definition of love is to lay down your life, right? And so it costs you something. And that's why I love generosity, when you think about love and finance, it costs you something to be generous, very tangibly, right, because if you're moving money to charity, or to, you know, to give it away, it can no longer serve your personal purposes. And so we find that it just lends itself to then some more robust conversations about your values, about why you're giving where you're giving. And then that creates also a model for the next generation when they see their parents or grandparents giving money away versus accumulating it for security or for their own pleasure. It lends itself to gratitude, and to really a greater sense of confidence and joy. And we see a lot of our investors who are generous, a lot of times they make better investment decisions, because they take the role of a steward, rather than an owner and they see these resources as something that they've been entrusted with to multiply grow and use for a bigger purpose beyond themselves. So it actually lends itself to I think generating more profitable returns in the long run.

Jeff Ma  
So how does that conversation go? Like if people come to you with all their wealth and all their money? And and they they kind of know where you're coming from, I guess that they're coming to your door? Is it helping them understand specifically how to be generous with their money? Is it more in the relationship building with them or all the above? Or walk me through that a little bit?

Speaker 2  
Yeah. So we were really big on we want to meet people where they're at, right? So some people come and they are already on fire, they have their own foundation, we have donor advised fund, they're already funneling money, they just want to, you know, five expat or be more intentional. And so the conversations with them are really one of two ways one is can we be smarter about the giving. And so I don't want to get too technical, but giving caches what I think people are familiar with. But there's if you want to multiply your giving you give stock, you give a piece of your company, you give these illiquid to give a piece of your real estate before you sell it. So there's a lot of strategies on how to give smarter to multiply your giving dollars. And so that's sometimes a conversation. So on the technical side, if people are already prone to giving then a lot of times it's giving them permission. There's a great book called Gospel Patrons but it's, it's giving people permission to take. I'm not going to try and use a gun analogy because I don't know my guns well enough a sniper approach, where they're giving with what they care most about. versus just kind of scattering going well, everyone has asked me, I'll just give to anything and everything because I don't really everything is important. But it's really having that values conversation, what matters most to that client, what really, what were they put on the earth to do and what are they passionate about, and then giving them permission to go all in with their giving there. So that's one end of the spectrum on the other end, they're really not open to generosity, they've never considered it before. A lot of times, we just use the tax door. And so Hey, your favorite charity is going to become the IRS unless you want to put your money elsewhere. So if there's any causes that you care about, if there's any organizations that you want to support, let's go ahead and have a conversation about how you can do that with the assets you've been given and just convert some of those tax dollars to giving dollars unless you want your you know, what the IRS to be, or the biggest charity on your book.

Jeff Ma  
That makes sense. Yeah. So I guess shifting gears, I mean, most of our listeners aren't going to be sitting on piles of cash or ready to, you know, give generously. So to kind of move this conversation into something that they can relate to. What about the functionality within Arcos. So let's talk a little bit about how the team is built or how behaviors are centered around how you work together to accomplish this mission, because this mission clearly is founded in some place of generosity and love, which I, which I really, really love. How does that play out, though, I find that a lot of times, again, with money in the picture and finance in the picture. The bottom line is often what we lead with, do you find that to be a struggle or partly true? Or how do you approach it?

Sarah Fontenot  
I think there's, well, I don't, to be clear, I think you can be generous and still be wildly profitable. And that's what we're going for, in terms of, you can run a profitable business and still have generosity at its core, I don't think they have to, I don't think get to choose between one or the other. But just to rewind a little bit. So our vision is to build and scale the ideal God honoring wealth management company. But our mission is to help families thrive across generations by connecting their money with their purpose. And what we have found is the advisors that have joined us the growth the employees, the staff that we have, a lot of times and this is true for me as well. The reason they come is because they resonate with the vision. And there's this all in yes culturally with that's what I want to be a part of, I want to be a part of building something in that vein of that vision, helping families in this way with more intentionality be able to bring a more fullness to the clients that I serve. And so the vision itself, we find is a dividing line. And so it attracts the right people. But when people hear that, if there's no resonance, they're probably not going to be happy here. So it makes it really quick to move on in terms of the of the next person. And so I have found consistently that having that huge vision and alignment with that vision, I think it helps all of us check our egos at the door, right, because especially in a small startup, where we're all creating and everybody spaghetti on the wall, sometimes of which ideas are going to work and trying different things. And we all have our babies, those things that we really want to see, make it and we want to pull firm resources to go after this initiative. And this is why it's going to change the world. But at the end of the day, it's not about my name, or even our principals name. And it's not about what I want it's It's what's best for moving the whole firm towards that vision that's bigger than any one of us. And so I think having that God sized vision that huge holy audacious goal, it it encourages and empowers bringing our full strength, but then also aligning whenever a decision has been made. Well now it's about helping the team win versus, you know, pouting because I think it get what I what I thought I wanted. So

Jeff Ma  
do you find that to be something that the mission itself drives naturally? Or do you have to actively work within, you know, your team to actually maintain that momentum?

Sarah Fontenot  
The mission and the vision, because, like I said, they're integral to why most people their wives are joining, at least part of that is the mission and the vision. And so it's very sticky. It's not just something we kind of throw up on the wall with, you know, a bunch of letters on the wall. It's it's the reason that they joined so it's very sticky what we work towards and I think the working out of that looks like building and maintaining trust, right effective communication. How does it look to have conflict and resolution so those are kind of the nuts and bolts if you will of Okay, we're in this together, we're not quitting on each other that keeps us sticky. But you still have to work it out, right? It's not all peaches and roses because you still have to work with one another, to have that effective team. Because if you're not, if people don't have permission to challenge you just have a yes culture. But then if you have people who are challenging without yielding, well, now you just have a bunch of rogue employees are trying to build their own thing within the greater firm. And so what does that challenge and effective challenge culture look like? And I think, I think we've we've done a decent job of trying to encourage that. And keep that in alignment with again, the long term vision.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, absolutely. That's great. I think it's always paramount to center everyone around a mission and vision and sounds like you have that box checked. And I think what I've seen in especially nonprofits, but really any mission, or passion driven organization, is that everyone joins with for the right reasons, everybody shares an outcome, a lot of times that outcome is to, you know, serve externally to accomplish some mission out in the world, do something good, do something great. And a lot of times as humans, I've seen that very purpose blind us to how we serve each other within the organization. I've seen nonprofits that want to help the homeless and help the hungry and all these things. So adamantly pushing, just every person in there is fighting for that outcome. And But what ends up happening sometimes is they they're fighting each other, because they get each other's way. And you know, we're human, we have limited resources, we have limited time. And those conversations and get can get touchy. So I mentioned you mentioned conflict, how does your culture address conflict? Or how does how do you push through that with such a passionate, mission driven organization,

Sarah Fontenot  
and very, very passionate employees too. So we're all pretty verbal, outspoken and passionate about what we bring to the table. So one thing that impressed me when I joined. And we were probably a third of the size we are now, several, when I joined about five, five and a half years ago. Jeff who started the company, and the team he was building, he hits everything head on. And he set an example for, we're just going to get it out in the open. And so if there's an issue, we're going to talk about it now we're going to deal with it now. And we're going to get it to a resolution rather than letting it fester. But he also encouraged communication on those fronts. And so if there was a place where I felt disrespected, or I felt not heard, or if we had a situation where it was pretty heated, because we were both really passionate or a group of us were really passionate. And it crossed a line, we dealt with it in the moment versus trying to ignore it and push it down, or letting it fester for a long time so that it could explode. And so there was, I think, an example set from the top down, which is really key. Organizationally, I believe, and you probably know better with the interviews that you have. But from top tech, from top down, there was this invitation to be honest about what happened, deal with it and move forward.

Jeff Ma  
So you mentioned that from the top down, you're encouraging these conversations, and I guess tough feedback and really being honest in these moments. Can you help paint that picture? What is what does that actually look like? In a room or in a in a context of like when you say, I think it's easy to say hey, this leader encouraged like we can always just verbally say, hey, I want everyone to be honest, I want everyone to to speak up. But in practice, that doesn't always happen. Because there are power dynamics, there are egos there are, you know, eggshells to walk on when things are getting a little dicey. So what is that? When you say that? What does that look like to see that leader encourage that conflict or conversation?

Sarah Fontenot  
In the early days when we were smaller and mostly local to Houston, it looked like in a boardroom together and everyone brings their best idea and their best argument for why that should idea should happen. And we hash it out together. And we go for it until there's a decision made, right? And that's kind of what I talked about where we check our egos at the door once there's a decision made, if we're not running with with your idea, then you support the team and you go all in on on the idea that was chosen. Now that we've grown a little bit more we have satellite offices are people in across the nation that work either remotely or with a team that are outside of Houston, that kind of home office. It looks more like we've set up committee so business development Then our advisors and our marketing group. So each group has a voice within these different committees. So those committees can then hash out, bring their best ideas to the table. But then if it doesn't make sense across all of the firm, then we can kind of work work out some things within the committee, but then we can talk between using kind of those lanes, if you will. And so that's as we started growing kind of how we've tested ideas, since there's a little bit more structure than what we have, and we were just all in one room, and we could hash it out, which is, you know, I think can sometimes be easier. And then once you start growing, there's a little bit of strain on that. So you want to make sure that there's permission across the board for people's ideas to rise to the surface from anywhere in the company, and be vetted and brought to the table, and then have those conversations to see what really does make the most sense. And so we do a lot of seeking feedback from one another because we each carry such a unique lens. And so really looking for, hey, I think this is a great idea. What What's your feedback, and then tweak and go forward from there. So encouraging feedback is another, a big part of our culture that we want to multiply.

Jeff Ma  
Is there an element of this theme of generosity internally at Arcos? as well? How does that how does that play out?

Sarah Fontenot  
Yeah, so two things that attracted me one was the mission and the vision. But the second, there's one owner at the company, Jeff, and he made the decision. He has a life of what some would call radical generosity. And so he made the decision that he's going to give the company away. And so what that looks like is essentially every year 10% of the company goes into what's called a donor advised fund. He's not giving away operational control. But there's never going to be a sale at the end where Jeff gets a bunch of money. And maybe he throw some out to the other people who helped build the company. If the company's ever sold, all the money goes into this donor advised fund, basically a big giving fund. So a lot of people have a lot of fun giving it away, but it's not going to line his pockets. And I was at a different company before. And essentially, one of the partners in his exuberance at this other company was so excited that he was a partner and he looked at across the room of staff and he said, All you people work for me now and it was just the most deflating. Wow, I really am just here lining your seven figure pockets. And when I made my way here to Archos, and I heard that story of how his plan is to give the company away, and he's serious about it, he's moving into the foundation, it I did not realize how impactful that would be because it removed this is what I did not realize was a ceiling. Because even though I you know, have a boss, the empowerment that that created to know he is serious about this mission and this vision, and he really isn't just saying something to build a company so that he can have a really, you know, sweet yacht one day. He's really serious about what he says he wants to build here and about this mission of helping families. And because of that, he has a lot of authority when he talks to other business owners, and he talks to families about their generosity, the story alone gives you a ton of credibility, because he's he's living and walking out his talk. And so that's what one of the things we have 12 principles that we use to really steward and coach our families. And we always eat our own cooking. And so we want to be living those principles before we're speaking them to others. So that we are walking, walking the talk, if you will. So yes, absolutely. That story of generosity. So now, as a firm, you know, we're helping fund a pregnancy center in El Salvador to help women no matter how they got pregnant, to keep their babies and to, you know, have a healthy, raise their babies in a healthy area. And so that's an offshoot of the fact that he's giving the company away. So now that that whole firm has that story of generosity that we can actually fly down and be a part of. So as you can see perpetuates across the culture of the firm.

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely. And I'm seeing a lot of parallels because as I try to relate to it myself, right, I'm not extremely wealthy and able to participate in your services. But also, I'm not a business owner. I don't have you know, so much to give away. But what I'm drawing is connection is that the element of generosity is valuable at all levels. Yeah. And I think everybody has a means to be generous. And being generous within your means goes a very long way. As as leaders especially, we have the opportunity to give our time and our energy, and our limited resources, whatever they might look like to not not as a show, but as as kind of living proof that we care and that we put our money where our mouth is. And I think there's something really powerful about up following that type of leader, right, there's something like you mentioned, empowering and freeing to know that this person's mission isn't to just get every last drop of work out of you, and make every last dollar they can. But also they're, they're aligned to something bigger than themselves. And that's, that's really enlightening to follow. I think as a, as a follower.

Sarah Fontenot  
Very inspiring. Some of the most joyful people I meet, just across the spectrum with the families I serve, and wealth management, they're not necessarily the wealthiest, a lot of times, they're the most grateful, I see that a lot. And then the most generous, and a lot of times those go hand in hand. And the people who are giving their money away, and they're using their words for gratitude, there's this confidence, they have that despite what's going on, and there's a steadiness and there's a joy, and there's an outward focus to them. And it's, it makes them incredibly attractive. They're my favorite clients to serve. Because you just want to be around them, you know, they just, they use joy. They use generosity and compassion. And it's very attractive qualities.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, and it goes a long way for trust as well. I think when you come from that perspective, and knowing that somebody's in that kind of state of generosity, you naturally give people more of the benefit, the doubt, I feel like as humans, we tend to fill in blanks in our stories with more negative assumptions about people, that they're doing it for their own self gain, that they're out to get you and things like that, which we all feel at times. And I think that generosity goes a long way. Again, applying it to leadership in general, feels like it's a really important element, and genuine generosity, right? Not, not the showmanship of generosity, but genuinely finding something you care about. And being generous towards, it feels like it makes trust a lot easier as well.

Sarah Fontenot  
And it lends itself to an empowerment culture. Because when you discover giving away money, giving away power, I think goes, you have a grid and a rail for doing that. And so that's something I found being here. There's definitely be encouraged to we're encouraged to fail, right? Because if you fail, you've tried something. And you discovered it didn't, how many times did Edison fail before he invented the light bulb, right? Classic example. And so failure is encouraged. But then also, we're encouraged in this business, and advisors taught you, you, you get your 100 150 clients and you never give them away, because that's your you know, you're living off of those clients and what they're paying you for your services, and you never give them away. But what we're encouraging advisors to do is if you want to grow beyond where you are today, you have to multiply yourself. And the way you do that is to give power away and trust those clients to another, another individual who's going to serve them probably even better than you do, because they're going to devote more time more attention, it's fresh to them exciting. And then that gives you an increase of time and capacity to go where God's calling you to go and to serve the clients only you can serve. But the only way to do that is to trust to your point, Jeff to trust, and to give up some of that power. And to see what happens when you're willing to put someone else in the driver's seat. And to take that risk. And all of this generosity giving power away giving money away, it requires risk, and the element of being willing to have faith in someone or something other than yourself. And that is, of course, easy to preach about and a lot harder to do when push comes to shove. Because sometimes we like to think that we know best and we know how to do it best. And Jerry does it differently than me. And so how can I trust Jerry to do it, but maybe Jerry is going to do it even better than you could have ever dreamed, if you would give him a shot. And so you want to obviously attract trustworthy people, but But taking that risk, I think will be richly rewarded, especially for the leaders and the business owners. taking that risk could just be the difference between where you are in that growth goal that you have. Because if you're stretched to your limit, right, then something has to give. And sometimes that element of trust allows you to increase your capacity in ways that you didn't even realize. And once you get started, I think you'll find it's a little bit addicting.

Jeff Ma  
Well said and I think this is such an awesome conversation to add to the overall conversation we have here at love as a business strategy. We don't, I guess use the word generosity often in our in our learnings, and I think it's such an amazing and simple but important component that can really complement all the other mindsets and behaviors that are constantly seeking in this, this element of generosity that you've shared today is really eye opening. I think there's something for everybody to go back and think about where their kind of passion lies outside of themselves, and where they can be more generous for those around them in their missions. So that, you know, it just makes everything a lot easier, as we've talked about. So, thank you so much for your time and, you know, stepping away from the busy life of a of a new mother to join us to have this conversation today. Yeah, absolutely. And to the audience, appreciate you as well. Thank you as always for tuning in. And we hope you're enjoying all the episodes and checking out our book love as a business strategy if you haven't. If you haven't already, please also subscribe and rate the podcast when you get a chance. And we will talk to everybody next week. Thank you so much.