Rose Ann Garza  
Kerbey Lane gets busy and like it gets really busy, and sometimes you're very in the thick of it. And if you don't have good relationships and good communication, it is going to be really tough to be successful at your job.

Jeff Ma  
Hello and welcome to Love as a Business Strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We're here to talk about business, but we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from. We believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I am your host, Jeff. Ma and as always, I'm here to have conversations and hear stories about real people, real businesses and real life. My guest today is Rose Ann Garza, and she is this Chief Human Resources Officer at Kerbey Lane, the largest independent Restaurant Group in Austin, Texas. Her leadership has been instrumental in the company's expansion and its recognition through several prestigious awards for community and team member impact as a key member of Kerbey Lane's executive leadership team, Rose Ann is responsible for implementing the company's people strategy, enhancing organizational capabilities and fostering a positive team culture to support continued growth. Additionally, Rose Ann is the state director on the Executive Council the Texas Society for Human Resource Management, which represents over 22,000 HR professionals at both state and national levels. In August of 2024 she was honored as the 2024 HR executive leader of the Year by Austin Sherm at their HR excellence awards. So with that awesome intro, I'd like to welcome Rose Ann Garza to the show. How are you guys? Rose  Ann

Rose Ann Garza  
well, Hello, Jeff. I am great. Thank you so much for having me absolutely

Jeff Ma  
and I want to just like, I guess, set the records. That is just like, kick it off. Here my audience. I don't share a lot about myself to my audience, but I did go to the University of Texas at Austin, and for the audience that may not know about Kerbey Lane, like anyone who's lived in Austin, especially gone to school at UT, knows of Kerbey Lane. It is an institution. It is a shrine. It is a it is as old as is as storied as the university itself. So it's a great it's an exciting, almost like fanboy moment I'm having talking to you because, I mean, I was at Kerbey Lane all the time during college, and, you know, and what's interesting is, we're here to talk about culture. We're here to talk about that kind of stuff. But I have so many questions for you that I'm gonna, I'm gonna just waste some of these episodes minutes asking you about because at the end of the day, one thing that stands out to me the most about Kerbey Lane was also its culture, or the culture that it itself contained and that it imparted on people came through it. So anyways, enough about me. How are you Rose?

Rose Ann Garza  
Well, I'm great. I mean, how can I not be great after such a wonderful and amazing intro. And you know, welcome. So thank you very much for all that. I'm great. I'm excited to speak with you today and kind of share more about us and our philosophy and kind of what makes my job so easy and so wonderful and great.

Jeff Ma  
Love it. Love it. Before we kick into Kerbey Lane mode. Let's stay with Rose Ann for a second. What is your passion, your personal passion, and and also, if you don't mind, how did you find that passion?

Rose Ann Garza  
Yeah, so for me, it really starts at a very early age. I'm the youngest of four children, and my oldest sister is special needs. She has Down syndrome. So I really, really grew up in a home that we focused on each other, we focused on helping. And I joke. I've always kind of felt like I was HR to some extent. And when I decided to go into HR, I decided I was going to do it a little bit differently than historically. So really, really the idea and intent behind it is a heart for helping and a soul for service. And that's kind of how I describe how I go at things. It's really my my focus is, how can I help you and how can I serve you. And being able to do that at Kerbey has been wonderful, but it really stems from my parents. It really stems from the community that I grew up in. I am, I mean, I'm Hispanic. For those of you who may not know that I am Hispanic, and that's a big part of our culture. In the Hispanic families and culture as well, we really take care of each other, show up for each other, and really put your family and your community first. And that's really how I built my career.

Jeff Ma  
How did you find your way to Kerbey Lane in the first place? How did you end up in this crazy journey here?

Rose Ann Garza  
So it's kind of funny. I worked for another restaurant group, like a big corporate Restaurant Group for all of college and grad school and. For a very, very long time. And one of my former bosses found his way here, and he called me up, and I happened to be working, I don't mind dropping this name, so hopefully you don't mind me dropping it. I worked at the Driscoll, which is another sort of historical, long term Austin established hotel, and I was working at the Driscoll, and I loved it. I loved every single thing about it. It was a fancy hotel with fun guests and amazing stories. And my former boss just called me up and said, Hey, I'd really love if you would meet one of the owners of Kerbey LKiane. And I was like, Well, I love Kerbey Lane. I'm never going to pass up the opportunity to meet an owner. And I was like, But why? And he said, we really, I'd love to bring you onto the team. And I was like, Oh, I don't I've got, I've got this great gig over here. I'm staying at like, fancy five star hotels for like, $40 a night. And I was, like, young and broke, and that's like, all I could see in my in my future. And so I sat down on a Saturday with one of the owners, and we just had a conversation. We talked for three hours and ordered almost every single thing off the menu, which is crazy, because it's a large menu. And at the end of that, when I left, I thought, well, I have no idea if he liked me, and if I don't get that job, I'm going to be really disappointed. So that is ultimately I got the job, and that is how I ended up here. Amazing.

Jeff Ma  
And for the listeners who may not have been to Austin or understand Kerbey Lane, what is Kerbey Lane? What makes it different? I gave my personal kind of intro to it, but tell me. Tell me about yours. Yeah,

Rose Ann Garza  
so Kerbey Lane is a privately, largest privately owned, operated Restaurant Group within now, at this point, not just Austin, kind of central Texas. We are from Round Rock to San Antonio. So that's like North Austin to San Antonio, which is a south and then kind of East and West. We pride ourselves on really having something for everyone. And so a lot of our food is locally sourced. Is kind of Farm to Plate. We really, I think, in my opinion, we originated that many, many, many moons ago, back in the 80s, before now, it's a very common practice in the restaurant industry, but we've been doing it for 40 plus years, and it's really about also, again, community, that word. You're going to hear me say it a lot, because it's really important. So it's really about the community that we're building and that we're supporting, and that supports us and we pride ourselves, like I said, on having something for everyone. We're mostly known for our breakfast, but I will say that we have incredible lunch and dinner entrees for I guess, let me think, I mean, like 40 years of the organization, we were 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 364 days a year. And then this little thing happened in 2020, that I prefer to just kind of gloss over. And we are only 24 hours a couple days a week at a couple locations now, but a lot of gluten free, vegan, vegetarian, you name it, we've got it. We want you and all of your eclectic family and friends to come in join us. And whether you want breakfast or you want a chicken fried steak or you want a burger or a salad, you can have it at any time of day or night.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, for sure, and even though I'm like, 15 years removed from my last day in Austin, and I'll still, like, wake up in the middle of night craving something, something, because I was 24 hours was a big deal back then. As a college student, we were there. But I want to move the conversation to I mean, obviously your human resources and Kerbey Lane, I still recall had some of the most interesting humans I've ever met as patrons and as staff. Talk a little bit about the humans in this work. Talk a little bit about your philosophy towards team members and culture within Kerbey Lane.

Rose Ann Garza  
Yeah. Yeah. So I think something that even predates me, and I've been here for 18 years now, and so really, one of the things that even predates me is that we've always our ownership and our leadership has always really prided itself on encouraging our team and encouraging our guests to like come as you are. So there are, there is no pretense. There. There is no snobbery, nothing of that nature. We really, truly want to be kind of your third place. So when I say third place, we're talking about for most people, your first place is your home, your second place is where you work, and then your third place, for a lot of people, is maybe their gym or their church, or in our case, we want it to be our restaurant, and so just kind of come as you are, feel safe, feel comfortable, feel welcomed and feel like an extension of the family. And so that's really the environment that we try to cultivate, is we love you and we trust you and we support you for who you are. We give our team members a lot of freedom to make. It right for our guests, like if something goes wrong, we give our team members a lot of freedom to go the extra mile and make sure we're taking care of our guests, even if it's outside of like a normal request. And we encourage our team members to look the way they want to look, to dress the way they want to dress, within reason and really create an experience for those people who are spending their time with us.

Jeff Ma  
Is culture like? Is culture like a word that is used? Is it thrown around? Is it understood? Is it held sacred? Like, what does culture mean like to you or to you and within curvy lane?

Rose Ann Garza  
Well, I think, of course, culture comes up and culture, the word is used, but really like more. So the things that we focus on are our core values. Because to us, like those are, that's our guiding light. And we keep it really, really simple. We there are three C's, and so it's care for the guests, care for the food, and care for each other. And so that is really what encompasses who we are every day, on a daily basis, and what we're focusing on is the food, the guest and each other. And then, in addition to that, really like our mission and our purpose, our purpose is to be a place where everyone feels welcome. And so over, you know, time everyone feeling welcome, that that definition changes, right? A lot, and so it's really important that we make sure that we are having the tough conversations, and that we're listening more than we're talking, and that we're kind of modifying who and what we are, and you know, when needed, but where I come in is really care for each other, right? Like I waited tables all through college, and obviously I was a server. I was a bartender for many, many years, ages ago now. And whereas I won't wait on a guest today, the way that I view our team members is like, those are my guests, like they are here for a period of time, and it's my job to take care of them, and it's my job to make sure they feel taken care of and that I get them what they need, and we find more and more and more as like generations are coming into the workforce. It's not cookie cutter, right? So I think at the beginning of my career in HR, it was very, very black and white, not a lot of gray. And that's one of the things for my profession that I'm most proud of as a profession is that we've really kind of come a long way, and we recognized, hey, it is not one size fits all. It is not black and white. There is a ton of gray. And we need to do our best to kind of meet people where they're at instead of expecting them to be where we want them to be.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah. And when you mentioned that, you know, it's like this, come as you are, like, which sounds great, but when it comes to running a business which is usually driven by like policy and like rules, how do you balance that? Because like you mentioned like, Come as you are, means a lot of different types of people and behaviors and preferences and customs are coming your way. How do you make sure, like the individuals that are so different from each other are still, I guess, taken care of, or equitable all those things?

Rose Ann Garza  
Yeah, we spend a lot of time, you know, beginning even with the interview process, through training and then through kind of ongoing classrooms, talking about kind of mutual respect, talking about civility, talking about giving each other grace. One of the things that we, I think, do a really great job at is making sure that we know and understand. It's not our job to know every single thing that's going on in someone's life, but it's our job to make sure that whatever that person needs, we figure it out and we take care of it. So I can't, I can't solve everything for everyone. No one can. But when you're with us and you're in our care, whether that's as a guest or whether that's as a team member, what do you need today? Like, where are you at now? How are you feeling? You know, one of the things that I talk about a lot with our team is something may not feel like a lot to me, but it might feel like a lot to them, right? And so one of the things that I really teach our team is kind of using, like, the body index and saying, Okay, how are you today, right? Like, do you feel like you're walking around and you've got like, a cut on your hand or a bruise, or, do you feel like you've lost an arm? Do you feel like you're, you know, paralyzed? You feel like you're a quadriplegic? Do you feel like you can't move? Like, how are you showing up today? And how can I help you to feel better? What are your stocks? What are you walking into on this shift that is stopping you from being 100% present and like, let's talk about it. Let's get it out of the way, and let's have a good day.

Jeff Ma  
I love that. And I think the way you present it makes it much more, you know, human, and less, I guess, like, policy driven. But I'm curious, how do you, I guess, I don't like to use the word enforce, but how do you, how do we hold each other? Accountable in a culture like this. I mean, you know, how do the how do the cooks take care of servers, and how the servers take care of guests? And how do the, you know, how do the managers take care of like, what does it actually look like at the end of the day to like, live some of this out? Because I think that's, that's something that the audience may not be able to like, really connect between the philosophy and the reality.

Rose Ann Garza  
Yeah, I think it starts with a simple fact is, like, we're checking in with each other, right? So it's not just leadership, checking in with the team, it's the team checking in with the team. Like, Hey, fellow fellow server, fellow Cook, fellow dishwasher. How are you today? What's happening? A really, really big thing in our culture is making sure you're greeting everyone and that you're having like, a brief conversation and just kind of checking in Kerbey line gets busy and, like, it gets really busy, and sometimes you're very in the thick of it, and if you don't have good relationships and good communication, it is going to be really tough to be successful at your job. And that is one of the things that we really try to hone in on. Is we are in the business of people, any no matter what, every single one of us is in the business of people. And so it's really about having good relationships and good lines of communication, and the ways that you start to build that are through, like, common courtesy, consideration, hello, looking at each other in the eyes. I mean, I worked in environments where I came in and like, there was literally, like a brick wall between you, you know, front of house and back of house. Front of House would be servers, back of house would be cooks. That is not helping anyone. You've got to break down those walls. And so another thing we do are these things called Code greens. And a code green is where you can literally write a note to someone else that you work with. And it's really just like, hey, you know, Jeff, thank you so much for picking up my shift the other day. Hey, Jeff, thank you so much when I messed up on that, you know, ticket and you got it out quickly. So code greens, like, that's part of our culture, something we really push, and then really just, you know, taking care of each other, right? Like, are you living the core values? Are you showing up and putting someone else first and making sure that others are putting you first, that way no one ever feels left behind?

Jeff Ma  
Are there any specific, like tangible ways with care, kind of being at the center? I'm curious, because a lot of times, especially in really busy environments, it's easy to feel like disconnected from, let's just say, the higher ups or the powers that be, and you sitting as like chief human resource, you know, kind of you're kind of overseeing many, many things. How do you make sure, like, your care, I guess, reaches, kind of the last you know, you know, last seat, last row, kind of person, the individual contributor, the waiter, the dishwasher at the end.

Rose Ann Garza  
Yeah, there's a few different ways that I do that. One of those is physically being present, like sitting in this, you know, office, in this chair, like this, is a piece of the job. It is not the whole job. So physically getting out there, seeing the team, spending time with them being in the locations. So there's a couple different ways I do that. Sometimes it's really just being a guest and sitting and eating, we're spending some time there. Sometimes it's working remotely in one of those locations, like on my computer, hanging out. But the way that I do it, in a more kind of defined way, is I do a thing called, like HR office hours, and that's where I physically make a calendar and say I'm going to be at XYZ location on this day from this time. Here's the laundry list of things that you can come and chat with me about, and some of them are work related, and some of them are things that I just simply love as a human so some of them are like, Hey, you can talk to me about your payroll. You can also talk to me about the Texas Longhorns, right? I'm a person. You're a person, right? So you can talk to me about, you know, my your benefits and, like, your insurance. Or you can also talk to me about, you know, the latest episode of Survivor. So really, just making sure that they have a human face. I think that that was always one of the really biggest disconnects that I felt like I had when I was a team member. Before I was in HR was I didn't see HR unless it was open enrollment. And I think it's really hard to have a relationship with your team, and I think it's really hard to be able to know what they need if you're not talking to them, and if you're not kind of making sure they've got open lines of communication without 20 different people in between playing a game of telephone with what they might be needing. 

Jeff Ma  
We're going to spend the rest of the episode talking about the Texas Longhorns now. So what's funny is, when this episode gets aired, by my estimation, if you're listening to this now, the season is likely much further along. We're recording this right after a tough loss that the Longhorns just suffered. But who knows how the season ends. So, predictions, predictions, Rose Ann  for the. Us to the Longhorn season so that when this comes out, we could check, check, if you're right.

Rose Ann Garza  
Well, my prediction is, hopefully, that this conversation is the last time that we've had a tough loss, and it's the last time that we've had a loss. And in a perfect world, depending on how and when this airs, we are either kind of in the playoffs for college football or the bowl season, and we're going for the for the big game.

Jeff Ma  
I love it. I'm with you. I was expecting that was like a softball question, because I expected you to completely say that. Anyways, I want to take a little bit of time and talk about there was an article written in on by Sherm that I think it's related to a kind of highlighted you, spotlighted you also, of course, as I mentioned your intro, you're the 2024 HR executive leader of the year, so congratulations. But one thing I want to talk about, one of the sections was really about. They labeled it empathetic leadership. And I wanted your take on what does that mean to be an empathetic leader, and what does it take to truly live that out? 

Rose Ann Garza  
So, I think first and foremost, a little bit about that article. It's an amazing article, and I was very flattered to have had it written. You don't know what they're going to write about you. They literally just sort of interview you for an hour, and then they talk to a current person that you work with and a former person that you work with. And so again, I had no idea what these other people said. So for me, it was really incredible to kind of see it come together, and for all of us to have those same things, thoughts, kind of, you know, trends expose themselves. You know, for me, empathetic leadership. Again, it goes back to what is it that they need, and really sort of anticipating. I do a lot of my job like I did waiting tables. I pay attention, I stay quiet, I keep my mouth closed and my ears open right like when I need to. And I try to anticipate what they need. And then I ask questions, and then I make that happen for them. So I also think that, like so many people, are afraid to show like their heart or their soft side at work, and I think that that's really a disservice, especially in today's world. I think that so many people are looking for something bigger than them and greater than them, and they're looking to connect with an employer, or looking to connect with their fellow team members on a different level. And we've really tried, not not me, but like the business world, has really made work kind of very sterile. It's really tried to take all of the heart, all the soul, all the personality, out of it. It's like, here's your job description. Do this. Only do this when you don't do this. We're going to talk about it, and we're going to talk about it at length, to the point where you're exhausted. I don't want to do that like you're a grown up, and we've hired you because you have the ability to do this job, and we're going to have some times where we coach, but in reality, like it's about trust, and when you treat someone like you don't trust them, they feel that they know that they behave in that way, it makes a person feel smaller. And really, what we're trying to do is we're trying to make people feel bigger and better. And so it's about lifting people up. You know, I go and our leadership team goes at everything is like, if you win, I win. That's how we win. You're winning means that we win. So I think that I really just kind of not afraid to show who I am as a human and be vulnerable. I come from like the school of Brene Brown, right? Like, you know, don't we all? Don't we all? I mean, it's, you know, strong back, soft, front, wild heart. I think about those things all the time, you know, leading with integrity, but also not being afraid to be vulnerable and say I'm having a tough day, or to listen to someone else who is and not make it have to be this very, you know, scolding sort of conversation.

Jeff Ma  
I love that, and really inspirational to hear how you kind of approach, especially something like HR, which I mean, those who know, it's not an easy, easy job. It's not that sometimes more resources, less human and etc. But I was wondering, as we near, kind of close out here, if you could maybe share, since we're, like, kind of centered around care and your core values here, can you do you have any stories on hand that you could share that that stand out to you about like how that's been lived out or an example of of how it was lived out around, yeah,

Rose Ann Garza  
so I share the story knowing that this person gave me permission. You know, we had a team member who is very quintessential to who we are. It. They live our core values. They show up as their true self every day. They are eclectic, and they are fun, and they are incredible at their job. And they went through a period of time where they were really, really struggling with sobriety, they were missing, they were showing up late to work. They were not themselves at work. And I think for a lot of employers, they would have taken that and been like, Okay, hit the road, right? Like, this isn't working, and that wasn't the approach we took. The approach we took was like, Hey, you're a human being, and like, you don't seem like yourself, so let's have an open and candid conversation, like, what's going on? Are you okay? Right? And that's a really big thing that we try in every conversation with, Hey, are you okay? Right? Not accusatory, just like, I'm opening this very kind of plainly, like, are you okay today? And he kind of came back and just said, No, I'm not okay. I'm really struggling. I'm trying. I need help. And so ultimately, where we landed with that was there were other people within that location who were recovering alcoholics, who helped him get involved in AA, who ultimately helped him to get sober, which ultimately helped him to get to full time healthcare, which helped him to get a surgery he needed and because he was in physical pain every day, and that's why he was drinking. He was drinking because he was physically hurting. And so I think really, it's a testament to that team and them saying, hey, like, You're important to us, we're going to help you. And to me, that's care for each other, care for each other, but also care of each other is having that tough conversation, saying something's off here, what's happening? And if we you know, if that leadership hadn't had the confidence to have that conversation, and to say that would have very easily in some organizations, been like a 123, strikes, you're out. Or here's some write ups because you were late and we can't employ you anymore. And who knows where that person would be today, but I'm really proud to say that that person still works here and just celebrated his 20th anniversary with us. Wow.

Jeff Ma  
Rose Ann, thank you so much for that story and for everything you shared today. I really appreciate it, and I just I'm really like anytime I can hear, obviously, you have your own style, your own approach, but it's so aligned with everything I believe in and Love as a Business Strategy. So really heartening to hear it being practiced, and that there's, you know, places living this out. So I really appreciate you bringing that perspective, that story today.

Rose Ann Garza  
Well, thank you so much. It's truly a pleasure to be a part of this. I love your podcast, and it's been a pleasure to have the opportunity to share some time with you and chat about Kerbey Lane.

Jeff Ma  
Absolutely. And let's celebrate this wonderful season the Longhorns just had. As we post this episode, congratulations to the Longhorns, or wherever you ended up great job.

Rose Ann Garza  
Yeah, we love and support you Texas, Longhorns,

Jeff Ma  
whatever happened. I'm nervous anyways. Thank you to listeners for tuning in. As always. If you haven't checked out the book. Loves the business strategy as always, it's out there. Please go get it. Check it out, leave a review for the book. Leave review for the podcast. Let us know what you think. And thank you to Rose Ann one more time. And with that, oh yeah, and check out Kerbey Lane. I mean, I know it's regional, and you may not be in the region, but if you're ever driving through, coming by, or you just haven't checked it out, you need to check it out. I need to go back and check it out. It's been too long since I've had it so with that, everybody, have a wonderful week. We'll see you next time you.