AJ Ferrer  
You know, it's not a manager's job to, to be the smartest person in the room to have all the answers right to come in and just delegate orders, right or anything like that it's a, you know, it's a matter to chug to it to make sure that their team is surpassing them. Like, it's a better job to make sure they have the support and the tools to be able to grow to their best. And if and if they surpass you in their career and move on to bigger and better things. Well, then you did a good job.

Jeff Ma  
Hello, and welcome to love as a business strategy, a podcast that brings humanity to the workplace. We are here to talk about business. But we want to tackle topics that most business leaders shy away from, we believe that humanity and love should be at the center of every successful business. I'm your host, as always, Jeff Ma, and I'm here to have conversations and hear stories and tales from real people about real businesses and how they operate. I am joined today by not one but two guests, and they are Ed Cuervo and AJ Ferrer. Together, they have over 20 years of experience in producing multimedia and content for brands, startups, tech companies, and many, many others. And they're here to speak about their work at room three, a creative production company based in New York, they are a dedicated film and animation production company for not for profits, and for purpose organizations. Ed is the owner and executive producer, and AJ is the cinematographer and producer. So gentlemen, welcome to the show. How are you?

Ed Cuervo  
How you doing, Jeff.

AJ Ferrer  
Great. Thanks for having us.

Jeff Ma  
Awesome. Awesome. So before we dive into room three, and we'll go one at a time, I know it's kind of weird with three, three of us kind of fighting over air air time here. But I want to hear a little about your personal life kind of journey. Obviously, it could be a lot. But as much as little as you're willing to share, I really want to know, kind of what brought you to what, number one, what's your passion? And number two, what is the path that brought you there? And I'll start with you, AJ?

AJ Ferrer  
Sure. So my passion is helping to create good content in a number of different lights that can help have some type of impact Broadway at a high level. I think it started off, as you know, does for so many people in this industry, just watching movies as a kid and walking around with a eye handicam and trying to see what you can do with it. You know, it's kind of where it begins. But yeah, I mean, as I've progressed through my career, it's been, I've almost always drawn to, it's always easier and more exciting to work on content, whether it's for nonprofits, or just for a small company, or on a broader sense, something that that you can feel as you're producing it that this isn't just helping someone look good. This is can potentially have some type of impact and make life easier for somebody in some regard. So that's pretty high level. But I think that's where it begins. And what I'm always looking for whenever I'm taking on a project is if it has that at its core.

Jeff Ma  
What's your favorite movie of all time?

AJ Ferrer  
That's a maximum question that I could tell you have a favorite moment movie of the moment. So currently, it's an older one. And I you know, this is one I frequently go back to but I gotta say Top Secret. Val Kilmer is a great piece of slapstick humor, you know, it's like it's killer. It's good any time of year. Yeah, it can't go wrong.

Jeff Ma  
Love it. Love it. Very nice. Ed? Same first question, what is your passion and how did you get here with it?

Ed Cuervo  
So my passion is creating content, you know, simply to the core. And I enjoy thoroughly interacting with clients and, you know, partnering together to create a very impactful, memorable experience. And yeah, just like AJ said to, for me, I get a lot of satisfaction, knowing that something is impactful know, that actually resonates with people. And it makes people happy. How I got here, you know, it was quite the journey, you know, between going to film school and then going into audio engineer school, you know, for the, during my master's, and then coming back to video. My 30s I think it's just been you know, a pretty cool experience. I've learned a lot of seeing a lot and yeah, that's pretty much my my passion overall.

Jeff Ma  
I know you're a former audio engineer and you like to record some music. What's your favorite band? Of all time

Ed Cuervo  
band that I've recorded or

Jeff Ma  
I mean, band that I might know.

Ed Cuervo  
I think honestly, when I think about music history, I think the Beatles really have shepherd in a brand new way of recording music that you can kind of see throughout the 60s, like, from when they first started to like the end. Like, there was a lot of technological advances and a lot of like, experimentation that they did that really just like, kind of revolutionize like many genres of music. For instance, helter skelter is I would say, one of the first examples of heavy metal ever recorded on, you know, you know, ever like period? Yeah,

Jeff Ma  
absolutely. Let's jump into room three. So, high level? Tell me, I'll start with you, Ed. Tell me about room three. And really how it came to be?

Ed Cuervo  
Good question. So, room three, originated actually, before room three started aging, and I, Ike Lalo, some of our other people that we work with, we all actually worked at a tech startup a couple years ago called Grovo. And we're on the same team. And, you know, we had the opportunity to create 1000s of explainer videos, you know, whether through animation or through live action. And so, you know, we really worked with a lot of clients. And on my end, when Grovo was acquired by cornerstone, there was an opportunity for me to either continue or, you know, maybe explore a different path. And the path that I thought would work was when I tried to do it ourselves, you know, when I tried to, you know, keep the, the connection, because that was my favorite part of the job actually interacting with clients and having great interactions, like, continue doing it on our own. And fast forward five years later, you know, we started from scratch. Now we're in the city, we have an office in Midtown, work with like, over 20 clients a year, and it's just been a lot of fun.

Jeff Ma  
AJ, what, what made you follow Ed down this, this potentially treacherous path to room three?

AJ Ferrer  
So, going off what I just said, I think, yeah, we had a history of working together, that has always been really positive and productive. You know, there's a lot of respect there. I think we, we kind of complement each other, you know, our weaknesses, and our strengths kind of complement each other in a good way, I think. And so really, it was kind of a no brainer. You know, it's throughout my career, I've worked for several different companies, you know, full time freelance in a number of different capacities. But I think with with room three, it's just been a solid. It just keeps working. And it's been, we continue to, to move on to bigger and better things. And, you know, there's no reason to, you know, no reason to stop. So, let's keep moving. And I think we, yeah, it's a very complementary relationship. Yeah.

Jeff Ma  
What do you think, for either of you? What do you think, is the reason for what do you attribute your success to them? Three?

Ed Cuervo  
I think it's communication. I think it's trust. You know, I think after working with each other, in a different setting, you know, a lot of the pressures of a startup tech company environment, were eliminated, and we were able to actually just be a little bit more like, straightforward with each other with that, any of the pressures from like, you know, exterior people, you know, because sometimes, you know, runs rampant in these, like, more, was a hostile but more like, treacherous, you know, environments, in tech companies. And, you know, there was a big up and down with Grovo. And I think, you know, just being able to weather it. Think really, when it comes down to what we do now. Yeah, we just, we have a great level of communication, straightforward. We don't we don't hold back. I would say maybe it's called fearless feedback. You know, it's like, we really, you know, don't sugarcoat things. And I think in that sense, we do the same with our clients to you know, we're not like overinflating ourselves or vice versa. It's like, you know, we're we like to be straightforward with people.

Jeff Ma  
What is, I guess, room threes at a high level mission, or vision and its purpose.

Ed Cuervo  
I mean, I think what we like to do is craft great stories, and bring them to life. Through memorable video, and that's what I would say.

Jeff Ma  
And I know that a lot of the work, a good portion of the work is often with non nonprofit or for a larger purpose, is that something you all intentionally set out to do at the at the onset? Or how did you stumble across that?

Ed Cuervo  
I think it goes back to what AJ said. So, you know, being able to, you know, create video that has impact, right, you know, I, I think it's, you know, we're in New York City. So that's part of our ambition. And aspiration is to partner with big entities, or nonprofits that are doing good things. And, you know, really just help amplify the message. How create an experience that can, you know, touch and connect with others.

AJ Ferrer  
Yeah, I think, you know, when we're evaluating a project, that's something that we're just kind of naturally drawn to, right. It's kind of like, like, when we were at Grovo, like, we, like I was saying, we produced all different types of videos, 1000s of videos, some of them were, you know, could merely be how to, you know, how to better use, you know, the Google Suite, right, or something as simple as that, which wasn't, you know, or something along the lines of how to give like, a better presentation. But the content that was always the most exciting to work on, was how do you be a better manager? How do you have a better culture? You know, how do you have, you know, things that, like, as you're making it? Yeah, first of all, you kind of learn yourself, as you're, you know, we were learning at the same time, as we're developing this content at the same time, it's, you kind of know, like, oh, like, this could genuinely help someone, you know, and it's a lot easier to get excited about the type of content. So like, even now, as we're evaluating projects to work on, like, you know, not everything's like that. But when we see that at the core of something, whether, you know, it's, it's, it's common for nonprofits, it's, it's great, it's exciting. And it's easier to be like, Yeah, this is something that we definitely want to look further into. Which is, which is really nice. Really, personal interest.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, absolutely, that that hits home quite a bit for me, because in the line of work, that that I'm in, and that, that we're constantly wrestling with, you know, it is about, at the end of the day, reaching the hearts and minds of people to make a real impact, a real difference, no matter what it is, right? Whether you're talking about love as a business strategy, or you're talking about just how to be safe at work or something like that. These are all things that, you know, we're, there's sourced in a place of really wanting people to not just here but listen, right. And such a crazy world we we live in where this medium has become kind of the most important mouthpiece for that, that transfer of knowledge, you know, people don't read anymore, people don't really have longer than a few minutes of attention span. And it's so important for it to be captivating, and engaging and interesting, while still having that purpose. And that's something that connected, you know, me to this message, because, you know, we need more of people who with these talents and skills, you know, spreading messages in these ways, so that people can actually will actually listen, especially trying to explain love as a business strategy through this podcast as an example, just like, it's just a podcast that only reaches so many people. But there's so many more messages to get out there. And, and it's kind of like, it's up to you guys. And it's really great that you put so much of your heart and passion into that, because it always shows through, it always comes through in the final product.

Ed Cuervo  
Totally, I would add one thing to what you just said. One thing that we've learned, while working at Grovo was the art of creating really short videos. And I think when you're talking about like the attention span, one thing that we coined it was we call it micro learning, but in many ways, today, you can't. Or in order to effectively communicate to people, you have to be able to deliver really short, bite sized pieces of content that really just capture attention, maybe focuses on one emotional hook, and like one like learning point. And like that's your that's your piece of information that you need to transfer over to like the viewer. And I think you know, just creating a lot of that kind of video content, really and seeing that work across a lot of organizations that we used to work with. Yeah, I mean, like it definitely was something that we really fell in love with and continued to do.

Jeff Ma  
You know, we obviously the show was called love as a business strategy. And so we talked about love quite a bit. But there's so many different forms of love and what we talk about. And there's, there's the love for what we do. There's a love for the work is love for the clients, and then particularly, most often, I'm interested in the love for for one another, if you will. And so, you know, you talked about this team that work together, does the word love mean anything? When you think of your your group of folks and AJ, I'll start with you on the What does love mean, in that team's context?

AJ Ferrer  
Sure, I mean, definitely, yeah, I think it's, you know, like I said, a lot of us, the team, several of us have been working together for quite a while, right. And, you know, as Ed was saying earlier, like, we're very clear and direct with each other, right. And that is born out of love, really, it's like, it's like, it's like, we're not going to waste. You know, it's not about being, you know, harsh or anything like that. It's just about, like, Let's respect each other's time, we're focused on the same thing, you know, like, and let's, you know, feel we feel comfortable. There's enough respect in the room between everybody that we feel comfortable saying what needs to be said, right. And, you know, it's always in a respectful way, we're not like rude or anything like that. This isn't like a, you know, like a, it's not like a tense work environment, even when things might get a little, you know, tense, or occasionally. But I think, yeah, love is it has to be at the core of it, it's a love for work. And it's a love for the people that you work with. And I think that's, I mean, there's really no other way to operate, you can't have, you can't have a good working environment, people aren't going to be comfortable to bring their best and show their best, even when even if they might be wrong, if they don't feel that there is some form of love, you know, in the room. Other people might call it a lot of disrespect, or whatever it is. I personally like, I like calling it love. I think it's a it's a good move. Yeah, it's good. But yeah, that's kind of how I would, how I see it.

Jeff Ma  
And when it comes to this team, you know, there's, it's, it's got a tight knit kind of, you know, startup entrepreneurial spirit behind it. And you know, very often that I've seen at least, it'd be much easier to naturally have that, that love, which includes trusts and empowering each other and really lifting each other up being vulnerable with each other. You know, from what AJ says, I feel like you have those things in your team. The question is, as you grow, or as you kind of see success, and not you, but the pattern is that those types of things get harder and harder. You can't you know, not everyone you add to the team will have worked at your previous company together. Nor will they all be, you know, something you're used to or someone new personalities, new, all these things. And then of course, you know, size or number of people can change just how much interactions there are and silos and things like that. Is that something you think about as an owner and are in Are you how intentional are you, I guess about culture? With room three?

Ed Cuervo  
That's a good question. I think before room three, I did have the opportunity to be a manager and, you know, effectively manage a team of 10 people. And I learned so much from experience, you know, really just learning how to communicate with different people leading through empathy, like really, like, you know, I would do one on ones every, you know, week with every single person on my team, maybe grab a coffee, just like connect with them. And I think that taught me a lot about like, the importance of using, as we call here, love or like anything, some something similar that in the work environment, right now, like, you know, our team is small, but we're, you know, kind of composed like the the Avengers, like, you know, we all have a specialty, we're all really really, really strong, like, and so there's no egos in that way because we're all like, in many ways, superheroes and our own like, you know, craft and we work on and but that being said, I always try my best to check in with every person you know, you know, systematically whether it's just like afterward hanging out or like you know, in the middle of a shoot or we take a break we talk or could just be like, you know, getting a cup of coffee. You know, I do care very much about the well being of my team, almost to the point where I would almost put them first you know, for me, so, that that really is my MO behind you. Now being, I guess, a leader, whatever.

Jeff Ma  
That that's well said, and I want to kind of leverage that into the question of when, with all this effort and intentionality around the relationships in this in this team, how do you tangibly see that impacting the outcomes? So on the other side, what you produce and your clients and your revenues and things like that? How, where where do you see it get? Can you give an example the correlation, or if there is one,

Ed Cuervo  
honestly, it's no different than seeing an underdog, you know, win a big game, in any sport, you know, it's like, you don't have to have the most talent. But if everyone's synced in, and everyone believes in the work they're doing, and everyone's like, really, really, really, like, you know, motivated. And there's like this level of trust it communication, empathy, all that, I think people have the capability of, like, going above and beyond, you know, what they're expected, and, you know, delivering outstanding results. And then I think it's tangible to, you know, when you're with the client, and they see that you're having a great time, and everyone's also having a great time, then, you know, the positivity radiates, and it becomes a much better environment across, you know, both client and you know, us, it's just like a better experience.

AJ Ferrer  
Yeah, and I would say the same extends like the same culture extended to, you know, not just the core team. And, like I was saying, it's definitely visible. You know, when we were on set, when we were the client, you could see, you know, how, how this cultural love exists within our team. And the impact that it has just how when we problem solve, whatever might be coming up, yeah. And Clyde's responded, Well responded well to it, and the team members responded well to it, but that culture also extends to people we bring on if we have, you know, if we're going on a bigger shoot, we need to bring on a bunch of freelancers, or bring in actors for a day, or whatever it is. I mean, the same respect and open environment extends to them. And I mean, as far as I know, everyone we've ever brought on a product has always been excited to work with us again, which is great. And that's always a really nice feeling that

Jeff Ma  
absolutely. AJ, a point this at you first, at least. You you both mentioned, I guess, kind of the journey of room three times, you know, I think there's an illusion to kind of ups and downs, and things. But I want to talk a little bit about the hard times. Can you? Can you, I guess share? Maybe your lowest point, I guess, from your perspective of for, for, for running this business and trying to, you know, get it going.

AJ Ferrer  
That's tough. What was point hard times, I mean, you know, the, the best projects that I've ever worked on anywhere are the ones the most rewarding projects that I've ever worked on anywhere, including room three, or wherever, I've always been the ones that make me lose sleep at night, the ones where, you know, I'm pulling my hair out, you know, where it's like, it's a big challenge coming up, and I don't know what's going on, or whatever, it is always sorted out, but there's always a lot of, you know, a lot of sweat that comes before that, right. Yeah, I mean, I can't really call that a low point, though, right? Like, we've definitely had some projects come up at times that we're all super excited about. But then it's also like, Wait, this is kind of like, this is new, in some ways, you know, it's like, we're gonna have to like, really, you know, get down and dirty with this and figure out what's going on. So like, you know, I think personally, sometimes I can, like, we overthink things. And so like, my mind starts running, or whatnot, and like, and so it's good to have a team of people around who can kind of help, you know, calm that down a little bit. But again, I can't really call this a low moment, you know, I mean, because at the end of the day becomes it's a, it's a great moment, you know, it's a moment of growth. It's yeah, that's really a tough one. I mean, it's, uh, yeah, I'm pretty optimistic person. You know, I try not to look back and unless something was truly horrible, but knock on wood. So far, we've been tracking the ebbs and flows don't get me wrong. But yeah, I try to, at the top. Get to that question. Really? Yeah.

Ed Cuervo  
I have an example that resonates with me, Jeff, if that's okay, please, please. I would say when COVID first began was a period of ambiguity and like, you know, it was a very scary time. A couple of our shoots that we had anticipated. A couple of big ones actually were canceled because, you know, everything was locked down. And you know, He is definitely always an optimist, which is great, you know, and that's why, you know, I love partnering with AJ. But at a certain point, we had to pivot, you know, and it became more of a Zoom video, you know, there was a lot of Zoom video content that we had to create. And there was a tremendous need for that, it wasn't the most exciting kind of content period, but we had to create it, right. And we had to pivot and there was such a need for it. So I mean, you know, so, in some ways, it was low, because we all kind of be turned into cavemen, you know, AJ, Greta huge beard at it, you know, he's gonna save here, you know, basically, just like, yeah, it was just a weird time, but we still, you know, push forward, we've pivoted, you know, connected with same, you know, same clients found new and inventive ways to really usher in this remote world, you know, South content. And I think what started off is scary, ended up being an opportunity to grow opportunity change, opportunity to kind of, you know, think outside the box and pivot. And I thought, after that I was a really cool experience that we all kind of went through, because we're all at home to like, we're all together, it's important, then all of a sudden, boom, you know, it's like, but now, I'm not gonna work. Happy those days are hopefully behind us, you know,

Jeff Ma  
everyone just knocking on wood out here. Okay. I want to just follow up either of you on that one, I guess is like, I want to know about resilience, I think I feel like, I feel like small teams are often mighty, because we have these, these these closer relationships. And you can leverage that very easily. But you know, with small teams, also, there's those ebbs and flows can hit harder, you have less you have less kind of coverage for for unexpected turns, and problems are harder to solve with less people, things like that. I'm curious, what, going back to kind of the relationships and the love that might be in how you all work. Can you think of, I guess, you know, kind of examples, or just kind of anecdotally, how how that created any resilience, or how that benefit how that relationship kind of benefited when when those those downtimes, or those harder times hit?

AJ Ferrer  
Yeah, I think, you know, it's, it's a mixture of the continued, you know, respect on the team. It's a mixture of being everyone kind of being like minded, right. But also, like, yeah, continue to respect to, on the team with each other, I think when when, when hard times hit, like, everyone naturally kind of leans in. So yeah, going back to Ed's example of COVID, which is a great example, like, the team had to pivot a lot, you know, mostly to doing zoom videos, and whatnot. And I, you know, I, like ended up building a studio in my apartment, because everything else was locked down, you innovate and started doing a lot of like product content, you know, in product videos, or whatnot. Right? And so, we all kind of like no one and you know, our animators got creative, you know, and how to be efficient, you know, and how can we, you know, really help pump up the Zoom content, you know, like, no one, everyone felt encouraged enough, and that everyone felt free enough to be able to say, you know, no one sat back and said, Oh, well, this is it, you know, I mean, it's like, are you whatever it is, everyone said, oh, you know, what, like, let me take this time lien and cook something up your domain, or whatever it is, and let's match this all together. Right? And everyone felt, even if they're unsure, but at first saying, hey, like, you know, I got this thing, whatever it is, like, we're all able to feel comfortable enough to present new ideas. And you would if they weren't fully flushed at a certain time, you know, and we felt open to criticize each other, if needed, do you it's like, I think just having again, goes back to what we were saying, but having that, that, that core and that the respect of the core is key, because that's the only way you're gonna get through hard times is if people feel comfortable enough to say something that might be out of the box. And you know, but know that even if they're criticized that it's for it's, you know, it's there's no negativity behind that, you know, we're all trying to have the same goal.

Jeff Ma  
Yeah, absolutely. Last question will be for you. Add. Let's say you fast forward, we can arbitrarily say five years, however many and Room 3 is like you know, Room 300. You know, like I'm talking about it's just you've blown up you got offices or you've got people all over the all over the world doing this this with you. And you're in your in your big in What is some when you picture that? And again, that might not be your vision right now, but let's just for this exercise, let's just say that's, that's where you're at. What are you? What are you hoping? That looks like from as as like an owner, like, as someone who appreciates what you have now this this, this closeness, this realness this relationship driven team? How do you hope that looks when expanded? And how would you kind of focus to make sure that happens?

Ed Cuervo  
Yeah, absolutely, I would hope that everyone, no matter what the position they're in, you know, treats each other with respect, are able to be equally as motivated in the line of work that we do. I would always want and expect people to, you know, give it their all, but at the same time, always know that, you know, I'm here, or, you know, the other teammates are there, they need help. They need someone to reach out for advice, mentorship, anything like that. Hope, you know, we get to a point where we can work hard, but also, you know, celebrate our successes together, you know, in a great and healthy way. And really just like, Yeah, I mean, instead of having, I don't know, if I want to have 300 people, but I think 30 would be cool, you know, and I think creating, you know, quality content across the board would be amazing, it'd be so cool to have a team that can create, I don't know, like Netflix series, or something that would be really, really, really awesome. And, you know, really have that close knit group that like really appreciates the process really appreciates the outcomes and are willing to take the hits, and keep moving forward, you know, despite good or bad, you know, I think. I think that's, that's my hope.

AJ Ferrer  
Yeah. Just to add one thing, I think that will be, you know, a core piece of that in any really, in any organization, I'd say, is really, I mean, it has to be continued culture of lifting each other up, right? Just like do the good and the bad. One of my favorite pieces of content that we produced years ago was that piece of management content, and it would management training, and it talks about how, you know, it's not a manager's job to, to be the smartest person in the room to have all the answers right to come in and just delegate orders, right, or anything like that, it's a, you know, it's a matter to chug to it to make sure that their team is surpassing them, even, like, it's about a job to make sure they have the support and the tools to be able to grow to their best. And if if they surpass you in their career and move on to bigger and better things, well, then you did a good job, you know, it's like, that's what a manager's job should be. And I think in so many places, it's exactly, it's, that exact thing isn't talked about enough, a lot of times to get people get into magic position and think it's like their jobs to come in, and, you know, bark orders and be on top of everything. And it's, you have to keep things organized, but the measure of success should be where your team members when you got them, and where are they, you know, a year from them. And hopefully, they're off your team, because they went on to better things you should you're doing that, you know, it's like, then it's, you know, you're you're doing it right. So, as long as we can maintain that, I mean, anything's possible.

Jeff Ma  
Well said, and I really want to appreciate you both for coming and sharing about yourselves and your stories, I think, is a really important conversation. And one of the reasons I really wanted to have you on is because a lot of times when people talk about when I'm when I'm coaching people, or I'm talking to people, they're there, they're really struggle, they really struggle to grasp what things shouldn't look like, I guess, or could look like, especially in larger kind of ingrained corporations and corporate environments. And the analogy, I always kind of bring it back to is, you know, like, examples like room three. Like, I think that while I go out and specifically teach, you know, trust and forgiveness and things like specific topics, a lot of these things are just naturally ingrained in how you work when we come with the right mindsets, and we have the relationships and when we come in for the right reasons, all the things that built room three from the ground up. And you all do it relatively effortless, as evident from just the conversation today, right. And so I think it's just so important for people to recognize that it is possible and we've seen it be able to be expanded, if you have a focus on it, like the more people can join in this type of environment. And you guys are setting a great example for how it's done at this scale. And it looks like you have the right mindset to bring it into the next level and You know, I'm rooting for you. And I love the work you're doing. If anyone listening wants to check it out, go check it out. I've seen some of the stuff. It's pretty incredible. You should check it out. So yeah, that's room three. Do you guys want to leave a leave a plug or something like what's the best way everybody can find your work? We'll reach out to you.

Ed Cuervo  
Yeah, you can find us at www dot ATT room three nyc.com. And or follow us on Instagram. Room three, NYC.

Jeff Ma  
Awesome. So with that, I really appreciate Ed AJ, both of you for being on the show. And to my audience, appreciate you as well for always sticking with us. That's the same time every week. Well, we'll be here. And if you haven't already, please continue to check out the book and love as a business strategy is on. I guess I'm tired of pitching this every week. But hey, I want people to read this book man. Love as a business strategy available at all those retailers. So with that great conversation and a great time. Have a great week, everybody. We'll see you next week.